HPWC Requires at least a 60amp circuit???

[rcmx]

My electrician is telling me that the installation of a HPWC requires a 60amp circuit. I was laboring under the belief that it could be installed on 50amp, but just wouldn't provide the level of charge that it was capable of. He indicates that it is against standards/code or whatever to install it on anything less than 60amp.

???

 

[MorrisonHiker]

If you want the HPWC to output 48 amps, then you need a 60 amp circuit breaker. You can install it on breakers lower than that and it would be able to provide 80% of the breaker's value. A 50 amp breaker would provide 40 amps. A 40 amp breaker would provide 32 amps, etc.

From Wall Connector:

When installing, you configure it to indicate the size circuit breaker it was installed on.

 

[rcmx]

I guess that was my question.. so it seems like you don't require 60amp.....You can install on 50amp...and just get the lesser kW. He is telling me that he is not allowed by whatever authority to install this device on any circuit less than 60amp.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I guess that was my question.. so it seems like you don't require 60amp.....You can install on 50amp...and just get the lesser kW. He is telling me that he is not allowed by whatever authority to install this device on any circuit less than 60amp.

You can send the link I posted above. If he doesn't believe you, I suggest going with an electrician who knows how to read.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

@MorrisonHiker is correct, it can be configured for any circuit capacity you want, the only limitation is that it must be 240V. The NEC code your electrician is referring to simply states that it must be installed within the manufacturer's spec which again, specifically allows any size circuit.

But why is the difference between 50A and 60A even a question? The wire size is the same and I can't imagine that your panel is so close to overload that the extra 10A would push it past the limit.

 

[ATPMSD]

My electrician is telling me that the installation of a HPWC requires a 60amp circuit. I was laboring under the belief that it could be installed on 50amp, but just wouldn't provide the level of charge that it was capable of. He indicates that it is against standards/code or whatever to install it on anything less than 60amp.

How can I phrase this? Bullshit! Your electrician does not know what he is talking about and likely does not know code anyway.

You can install the Wall Connector all the way down to a 15A circuit, as noted above by others. Do yourself a favor and find another electrician.

 

[Silicon Desert]

My electrician is telling me that the installation of a HPWC requires a 60amp circuit.

You need to call a different electrician for this assessment. Doesn't sound correct, but of course I don't now your local codes.

 

[GtiMart]

There are no dip switches in the Gen3 charger, the maximum power output is configurable via its wifi page. Therefore, there is a possibility that the user change the maximum after the electrician installs. Because of that, they must use a wire that supports the technical maximum: 60A for the 48A pull. I'm not sure if it requires a 60A breaker but the wire is mandatory.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Because of that, they must use a wire that supports the technical maximum: 60A for the 48A pull. I'm not sure if it requires a 60A breaker but the wire is mandatory.

That is incorrect. In fact it would be a code violation to do so, if it were even possible.

Breakers (and other devices) have a specific wire size range that the terminal clamps can safely accommodate and in the extreme case of 6 AWG (60A) in a 20A breaker it is generally out of spec.

 

[RayK]

Get another electrician.

Somebody that has Tesla experience and can provide references of previous installations. You might get charged a "Tesla Tax" but at least you'll have a qualified person doing the job.

 

[ATPMSD]

they must use a wire that supports the technical maximum: 60A for the 48A pull. I'm not sure if it requires a 60A breaker but the wire is mandatory

Incorrect. If you want to get maximum power out of the connector you need to use a 60A circuit, but you can put in ANY circuit you wish, the breaker is what protects the wiring.

 

[GtiMart]

I'M repeating what I read on other threads. Do a search then, sorry I cannot be definitive.

 

[Sophias_dad]

My electrician is telling me that the installation of a HPWC requires a 60amp circuit. I was laboring under the belief that it could be installed on 50amp, but just wouldn't provide the level of charge that it was capable of. He indicates that it is against standards/code or whatever to install it on anything less than 60amp.

???

Time for a new electrician.

 

[Frank99]

I'M repeating what I read on other threads. Do a search then, sorry I cannot be definitive.

So this falls into the category of "I read it on the Internet, so it must be true", while ignoring the Tesla provided installation manual?

Dr. Fauci would understand.

 

[GtiMart]

Man some of you are tough. I'm saying there's a reason why the electrician is suggesting using a 60A circuit whatever the actual setting you want to use. It's because you could technically change the setting after he's gone, back to 60 A. The gen2 had switches inside, requiring physical access to the interior to change the max amps. I believe they are forced to install it that way to respect code. Clearly code around charging equipment is changing as things evolve, and varies per country etc. I'm helping you understand they are not necessarily bad electricians. If you don't want to understand, I'll leave it up to you...

 

[jjrandorin]

Man some of you are tough. I'm saying there's a reason why the electrician is suggesting using a 60A circuit whatever the actual setting you want to use. It's because you could technically change the setting after he's gone, back to 60 A. The gen2 had switches inside, requiring physical access to the interior to change the max amps. I believe they are forced to install it that way to respect code. Clearly code around charging equipment is changing as things evolve, and varies per country etc. I'm helping you understand they are not necessarily bad electricians. If you don't want to understand, I'll leave it up to you...

I understand what you are saying, but there are also a couple of people in this thread responding that have extensive electrical experience, so they are not "home DIY ers" so to speak.

 

[GtiMart]

@jjrandorin, I guess I didn't appreciate the last comment basically saying I'm spreading lies, or whatever. I have heard serious, trustable people explain what I'm saying. But hey, it might not hold true in the USA. Anyway, trying to help, I'm happy if I'm wrong, it's not required and you can save money.

 

[holeydonut]

Yeah, just paying Devil's Advocate here... I can see what GtiMart is saying where an electrician may have a bad experience where a customer wanted a 24A charging capability on their Gen 3 HPWC and the Electrician installs it with a 30A breaker.

Then said homeowner logs into their HPWC and cranks the sucker up to 32A and keeps complaining that the electrician screwed him.

This inherent mistrust was the gist of the original PG&E expert crapping on my solar+ESS. They thought my building permit had an intentionally low breaker on my main panel. And PG&E insisted they "see homeowners and shady solar contractors do dumb stuff all the time" where they'll swap out bigger breakers and stuff once the inspector is gone.

Specific to the HPWC... here in Contra Costa County CA, I had a brief exchange with the e-permitting office. The guy on the line said he was aware some homeowners were submitting e-permits with the 40A setting on the Gen3 HPWC with a 50A OCPD. This allows the homeowner to get the cheaper option EV (edit: I meant EV Charger) install since a 50A OCPD e-permit is pretty cheap, while a 60A OCPD needs the more expensive option with the triplicate 11x17" CAD submissions that Vines probably does on the daily.

So the homeowner gets an e-permit for the 50A OCPD with beefy conductors... then after it's all approved... someone lands a new 60A OCPD on the panel and dials the thing up to 48A (or worse, just dials it up to 48A and doesn't change the OCPD or conductors). The County doesn't like it, but it's not like they're equipped to do anything about it.

TLDR, I can see why an electrician that mistrusts homeowners will choose to install a HPWC with only a 60A OCPD and a continuous load rating at 48A that fits within the load calc. Either way, go find a new electrician.

 

[Sophias_dad]

Man some of you are tough. I'm saying there's a reason why the electrician is suggesting using a 60A circuit whatever the actual setting you want to use. It's because you could technically change the setting after he's gone, back to 60 A. The gen2 had switches inside, requiring physical access to the interior to change the max amps. I believe they are forced to install it that way to respect code. Clearly code around charging equipment is changing as things evolve, and varies per country etc. I'm helping you understand they are not necessarily bad electricians. If you don't want to understand, I'll leave it up to you...

Sure, but it is arguably less work to pop the cover off the Gen2 HPWC and flip switches, AND in either case(Gen2 or Gen3) changing the setting to something more than the wire/breaker will support will cause the breaker to trip. I guess you could also make the argument that the user could change the breaker after the electrician left, leaving the wire undersized. At some point it's no longer the electrician's problem.

 

[ATPMSD]

because you could technically change the setting after he's gone, back to 60 A.

This is why we have circuit breakers. Note also there are lots of installations with a 50A, or less, circuit because the main panel cannot handle a 60A circuit being added, or simply because the wire used cannot handle 60A.