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HPWC to J1772 adaptor

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by paco3791, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    Wow, fantastic work Henry! Not a Roadster owner but it would seem that someone could use your hard work on this adapter to make a J1772 adapter so that other EV drivers could use the expanding install base of HPWC. I would guess the changes needed, while not trivial, are small compared to the work you've already done.
     
  2. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    #2 Tedkidd, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
    Sign me up for this too please?!!
     
  3. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    Model S to J1772 adaptor!

    I'm about to get a Smart ED and I want better charging. I've considered the Jesla, but I'd really rather just have an adaptor instead.

    I ran across this post by richkae requesting a Roadster adapter, and it pretty much describes what I want except with a J1772 termination:


    Frankly the options for charging all things NOT Tesla pretty much suck. The cars don't even come with portable EVSE's capable of low level 2 charging (a concept quite foreign to many Tesla owners...).

    Folks, imagine receiving your Tesla with only 8 mph charging EVSE. All other EV manufacturers are delivering their cars handicapped thusly. It sucks. It's a barrier to adoption Tesla recognized and solved.


    So what now? If you want either a portable or fixed EVSE, the J plug options don't hold a candle to paying $650 for a UMC or $750 for HPWC. I'm not seeing ANYTHING close.

    Yes, Jesla is a Niche market. I think Tony would be wise to stop doing that and just build an adapter. Let's face it, J1772 suck compared to the Tesla connector, and as far as I can tell other brands EVSE suck when put against HPWC and UMC. The Jesla is a brilliant solution, but ultimately you are paying more and getting less. I'd rather pay more and get more. I'd rather pay that extra $350 and get an adaptor and have an unmodified Tesla EVSE.

    A Tesla female/J1772 male adaptor similar to the slick adaptor HCSHARP made that allows Roadsters to connect to HPWC and UMC. This would make unadulterated Tesla EVSE's very attractive to non - Tesla buying EV owners like me, and to Tesla owners with other brands.

    Once you see this, you won't unsee it:
    View attachment 68077 View attachment 68079 View attachment 68078

    Now imagine that connected to your Leaf, VW, or Mercedes! That's what I want!!



    The more people that have unadulterated Tesla EVSE's the more it would encourage other manufacturers to consider making the jump to this much smaller, much superior and more versatile design charge connector.

    Driving change requires coming at things from as many angles as possible. I think one path starts with having an adaptor that allows EV buyers to make purchasing Tesla EVSE not just an option, but the obvious choice. All that seems necessary for that to happen is have an adaptor like the one above that goes to J1772 instead of to the Roadster inlet.

    More images of Henry Sharpes awesome adaptor:

    Model S to Roadster adapter - Page 30

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67571&d=1419979025

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=54020&d=1405689597

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42801&d=1391835897
     
  4. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Completely agree that a Model-S-to-J1772 adaptor would be excellent for charging all other EVs; as I noted elsewhere, the JESLA has worked very well for me for that purpose (to charge my VW e-Golf) but, would have preferred to plug in the vanilla Tesla UMC into an adaptor and into the e-Golf then.

    An adaptor such as this will definitely help other EV owners plug into Tesla HPWCs but, I wonder if businesses that install HPWCs (and for that matter, Tesla's own service centers/showrooms/galleries) would be comfortable with that. Wasn't the motivation behind installing HPWCs in particular - rather than high-amp J1772 stations - attracting Tesla owners?! Tesla, who may have donated many of these HPWCs as part of their destination charging program, may not have "intended" wider EV use of those although I don't see them complaining about it.
     
  5. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    This can be a great idea, but if you read Model S to Roadster adapter, and look and what Henry Sharp went through, it is not an easy task. At this point he is shipping the Model S to Roadster adapter knowing that it does not work with all combinations of Model S L2 chargers and Roadsters!
     
  6. Cosmacelf

    Cosmacelf Active Member

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    A model S to J1772 adapter should be easier. It should just be a physical adapter, no resistors, or electronics needed. It is basically the opposite of the J1772 adapter that comes with each Model S.
     
  7. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    Tesla does include a J1772 in the Destination program.....clearly putting their money where their mouth is in terms of EV adoption.

    If Tony could "just" cut the Tesla nozzle off the UMC and put a J1772 nozzle on there, doesn't that imply it is as simple as making the physical connections, not a larger interface/protocol challenge?

    This could really help to get HPWCs out in the wild because businesses could really use it as a universal standard at a very good price.
     
  8. Chris TX

    Chris TX Active Member

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    As you can see from my profile pic, I've been working on the TSL02 connector (Tesla Model S) for a project. It may or may not be a TSL02 to J1772 adapter (opposite of the adapter that comes with the Model S) ;)
     
  9. SmartElectric

    SmartElectric Active Member

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    #9 SmartElectric, Jan 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
    My Smart ED is charged using the provided 1.4kW (120V) EVSE that came with the car. Never needed more than the 7km/h charging speed, as it's always fully charged before the next morning. The Smart ED always charges fully to 100% of it's available/usable capacity. Technical details on the battery pack show no capacity loss due to charging to maximum daily. No owners over the past year have reported any capacity loss, I certainly haven't seen any in over a year of ownership.

    The range of the vehicle is 140km in good weather. At 70km/h that is two hours of driving. I wouldn't personally drive this car for more than a few hours in one day, even if given a faster charger. The car is designed and built for exactly what it's great at, commutes of <=100km round trip, or many small trips, that's what I use it for.

    Love this little car.

    Anyway, there are multiple EVSE available for $500 that work great with the Smart ED and can be plugged into various 240V outlets, and work with conversion adaptors (basically pinout changes). The Smart ED will only ever charge at 20km/h of range due to the built in 3.3kW charger, so spending more money on the EVSE makes no financial sense.

    You are over-preparing IMHO. Just get the Smart ED first, you'll love it. Then worry about charging it faster.

    Put a pigtail on this beauty for $400 and you will max-out your Smart ED on any outlet:
    ClipperCreek | EV Charging Stations | EVSE | Electric Vehicle Charging

    Or spend a little more and buy one of the EVSE that comes from factory with a NEMA plug.
     
  10. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    #10 Tedkidd, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    Gg, I was hoping you'd weigh in, possibly being the as well qualified to have an opinion as anyone.

    You'd think! Might want to design a way to lock it though...

    +1. I would consider buying a couple HPWC's as EVSE for tenants (I have 2 doubles) and to list on plugshare.

    COOL! Do tell more...

    Yeah, I can't wait!

    This will be a spare vehicle for me so I probably won't need more capacity very often. That said there is a park I bike at 30 miles south, at the top of a very steep hill. Having a better portable evse for that might prove handy. I imagine I'll be getting reduced range with bikes on the back and need 15-20 to get home.

    Mostly getting this car and want Tesla UMC for EV advocacy, and hoping to get my fiancé converted before her car has to be replaced (I really don't ever want another ice).

    So I'm planning for future cars.
     
  11. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    That's an interesting thought, but when the tables are turned, it interesting to see how many EV owners (including some Tesla owners) get their noses out of joint when a Chev or Nissan dealer says that their J1772 chargers are for use by only their own customers. You just have to look at PlugShare to see the comments like this. How can it be "bad" for a Nissan dealer to say their EVSE is for use only by Nissan cars, but it's "okay" for HPWC's to be Tesla only.
     
  12. ChrisPDX

    ChrisPDX Member

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    Just to point out, an adapter is not as simple many of you may think it is. True that one could be made without any electronics in it, just wiring to pass the power and signals through, but it would not be safe. Think about the current adapter or J1772/Tesla plugs. All of them are physically latched until a button is pressed at which point the power is shutdown. This keeps you from disconnecting anything with active power. If you made a Tesla to J1772 adapter, the adapter would have to have additional latching that disengages when the Tesla handle button is pressed. Otherwise, what's stopping you from just physically unplugging the J1772 end from the car during active charging?

    So while a simple adapter could be made, it just wouldn't be safe.
     
  13. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    At risk of sounding churlish, I'm not sure this is such a great idea. Tesla has paid for the HPWC destination program and a number of us owners have paid for HPWCs to provide a service to other Tesla owners. There are two in Florida where I personally underwrite the power costs and I'd be somewhat miffed to find a [insert your non-Tesla EV brand of choice here] plugged into an HPWC I needed access to. We've done a lot of work to encourage EV ownership and gaining support from the community but others need to pull their weight also.
     
  14. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    It's OK for HPWC to be Tesla only because they are given away to promote the brand and have no mechanism to charge the user for electricity, unlike most commercial J1772 installations. Tesla isn't in business to give away generic EVSEs. They give away HPWCs that are specific to Tesla for marketing purposes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    When I typed +1 in response to this I got a box saying the message had to be at least 3 characters, so that's why there is this excess verbiage.
     
  15. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    ∆∆∆∆∆∆ this

    I sometimes find myself envious of mknox's good thinking and ability to translate good thinking into words.

    Humans are clannish and it is interesting to see how others define inside and outside. I get that some need things homogeneous to feel "safe", they aren't comfortable around those that are different. Or possibly there is some need to feel superior that exclusivity satisfies.

    The problem with this thinking is it is friction to progress. Being a student of long term thinking and enlightened self interest, I don't think drawing the line at "Tesla owners" and "non Tesla owners" helps accelerate ev adoption.

    Personally, I won't be buying and sharing EVSE's that don't promote Electric Vehicles. That's the clan I want to elevate.
     
  16. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for every jurisdiction, but here where I live only a very tiny number of J1772 stations charge a fee. I get what Tesla is doing, and as a Tesla owner am always glad to find a HPWC in the wild. On the other hand, hotels, restaurants or other establishments that decides to host a HPWC do end up alienating other EV drivers. Here's an example comment from PlugShare (without disclosing the actual location):

    1-5-2015 4-03-12 PM.jpg

    When I had the option to install at my place of business, I chose to go with 100 amp Clipper Creek / Sun Country units. They will charge a Tesla just as fast as a HPWC, but will also connect to any other EV out there that chooses to drop by.
     
  17. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    #17 miimura, Jan 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
    The adapter discussed here should be electrically just like a JLONG(TM). When you press the button on a J172 handle, the different resistance signals the car to abort charging. Like you say above, the Tesla inlet end needs to have latching just like a Tesla vehicle does - otherwise the Tesla handle could be pulled straight out without pressing the button. While the pilot will disconnect before the AC pins, IMHO, that is not sufficient.
     
  18. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    can sj, can sj, can sj!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    If that were true, Tony's JESLA (modified umc) should be having a lot of reported problems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Might want to contact Jack Rickard, or watch his EVTV YouTube show. They're digging into CHAdeMO big time.
     
  19. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Tesla isn't going to come out with this adapter, ever. No Model S owner wants to pull up to an HPWC only to find a plug in Prius hogging a 20kw station.

    Having said that, I totally understand where someone with a J1772 port vehicle is coming from, but they should have understood the limitations of that vehicle when buying.
     
  20. Tedkidd

    Tedkidd Member

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    One would hope there aren't too many model s owners so self entitled, but I suspect you might be right. That said, I believe Elon when he says he wants to promote EV adoption, not simply Tesla adoption.

    Fortunately, innovators like Henry don't believe in limitations. Here's to hoping Henry makes it and Tesla doesn't!
     

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