TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

HPWC / UMC2 to Roadster adapter

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by richkae, Mar 13, 2013.

Tags:
  1. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    Don't worry, I'm still making them. In fact it's more fun now that the backorder pressure is off. Now I can work on the EU adapter that is still in prototype and a couple other exciting projects.

    There are lots of shining stars in this community and it's an honor to get to know you all. I can't begin to name everybody but a few things come to mind like the people who worked on decoding the log files, followed by various front ends to analyze the data. The work on the CAN bus that ultimately led to development of The Tattler and later OVMS. The smart people who experimented with various modifications and upgrades... We have a great group of shining stars!
     
  2. arnolddeleon

    arnolddeleon Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2012
    Messages:
    257
    Location:
    California
    #442 arnolddeleon, Jul 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
    I can't believe I just read the 45 page thread even though I have no need for this product. It was just wonderful to see the passion that Henry put into this and seeing the camaraderie in the community. If someone is looking for a poster child thread for an online forum this one is a great example.

    arnold
     
  3. PokerBroker

    PokerBroker Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2013
    Messages:
    526
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    The Minneapolis service center has been hesitant to use non-Tesla accessories and always asks me to bring my UMC. My recent trip I forgot the UMC and they were forced to use it and marveled at the quality of the device! :) I will probably "forget" my UMC on all future trips... It is my primary charger and never leaves the wall otherwise.
     
  4. AEdennis

    AEdennis Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    2,380
    Have them talk to Torrance... One of the guys there drives a Roadster everyday and is probably the one behind the push to get the center a CAN S-R... Last time I brought my UMC in to the center was a few weeks ago... Because IT was acting up.
     
  5. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,355
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Thanks for the advice. The (brand new BTW) HPWC performs fine on a Model S so convincing Tesla to change it may not be so easy. I'll get down there with my Roadster again next week. The only thing of note with Model S is that the voltage fluctuates pretty constantly, I'm still wondering if that is the issue for the Roadster?
    ~
     

    Attached Files:

  6. simonog

    simonog Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    419
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Please do work out how to make a Type 2 interface if it's viable - all European (and Asia?) users could use one.

    After all, with your Type 1 adapter and then my Type 1 to Type 2 converter lead, we achieve the same end to end result with just passive components added to the CAN so it's really a case of getting the Type 2 socket as the CAN input.

    happy to assist with debugging and testing.
     
  7. JohnGarziglia

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    Henry's Can SR at the North Fork Mountain Inn

    Here is Henry's Can SR with the honor of being the first EV to charge at the new Tesla destination charging station at the North Fork Mountain Inn in West Virginia. My Roadster is successfully charging at 70 amps.
    20150731_193851.jpg
    Strange thing though. When I first plugged into the Tesla charging station there, I got a repeated "External Charger Problem" (ID: 1084) error with a flashing red LED ring, rather than the blue and then flashing yellow LED collar.

    So I started charging using the 40 amp Clipper Creek charger there with my j1772 adapter.

    The owner of the inn, since the charging station was just installed, called the electrician who installed the unit. So I plugged my Roadster back into the Tesla charger in to show the electrician the error.

    We all stood there and watched it flash red for five minutes or so, trying to count the red flashing light for the error code (the Inn owner had the multi-page instruction manual that came with the Tesla charging station with error codes).

    All of a sudden, after about five minutes of trying to count and decipher the red flashing error codes, the red LED on the Roadster connection collar clicked to blue, and then clicked to yellow flashing to successfully charge at 70 amps. It was very strange. It was almost as if the Tesla charger had to go through a number of on-off cycles while giving the Roadster the error message and red flashing LED, until it finally clicked on and the handshake occurred. As I noted above, my Roadster was the first EV that used this charging station.

    Two more aspects to this. On the way out to West Virginia, we stopped at the Mimslyn Inn in Luray, Virginia and tried an identical Tesla charging station there, got the same red LED and error message. There, I then used the Clipper Creek with my j1772 connector but I have to wonder if I had waited five or ten minutes with the flashing red LED collar whether it would have also eventually clicked on.

    Three weeks ago, I successfully and repeatedly charged my Roadster at an identical Tesla charging station using Henry's Can SR at a hotel on the Eastern Shore so i know that my Roadster works with these Tesla charging stations. I just do not know why I got the error message at the Tesla charging station at the Mimslyn Inn in Luray, and initially at the same Tesla charging station at the North Fork Mountain Inn.
     
  8. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    Fluctuating voltage could be the issue but usually that will make it stop rather than prevent it from starting to charge. It's more likely that charger is out of tolerance with one of its specs. So far Tesla has been pretty good about replacing HPWCs that don't charge a Roadster but they don't have an official policy.

    Looking forward to getting the fault code when you have a chance to test it again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A ground fault is one of the few errors that will automatically reset after a few minutes. That's probably what you had. It's also hard to recognize the code for ground fault because it's one blink. Hard to tell when it's pausing and when it's blinking.

    It's discouraging that the newer chargers are not working as well as the older ones!
     
  9. JohnGarziglia

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    I am still at the North Fork Mountain Inn in West Virginia with this new Tesla destination charger and have tried the Tesla charger several more times this weekend. On the charger itself, once the charger shows "green" and at the same time the roadster LED ring shows "blue", the car clicks on as if starting to charge, but then both the charger blinks "red" and the roadster LED ring flashes from red to white to red to white for a minute or two, until the cycle repeats itself. I counted the red blinks on the charger and it is either 8-8-8 until it goes to green again, or at times 8-3-8-3, or at other times 5-8. I sat there and watched it go through various cycles for 29 minutes this evening, and then got frustrated and pushed the "reset" button on the charger with no change. Then I pressed the button on the charging connector handle and maybe 60 seconds later it seemed like the car and the charger synced with the blue "preparing to charge" LED on the roadster collar staying on long enough for the Tesla charger to "click", turn on at which point the blue LED roadster collar started quickly flashing and then went to yellow flashing like it should, and reliably charged after that. But I have no idea if pressing the button on the charger handle had any effect (I am not even sure what the button on the handle is supposed to do).

    So, when you say ground fault, do you mean a ground fault in the charger itself, or in the electrical connections to the charger, or in the car? If it was a ground fault, it would seem like it would not reliably charge once it started. I am thinking there is an issue with my Roadster starting to charge with Model S chargers -- would the logs on my Roadster give any hint as to what is going on?

    I would not be so suspecting of it being my Roadster except that the same condition also exhibited itself at the last Tesla destination charging station I stopped at, and that one was reported to work without issues for Model S owners so it just seems unlikely that two of these newly installed stations are defective. Another Tesla destination charger I used several weeks ago worked without an issue. Best I know, I have the latest software installed in my roadster.

    I welcome any further thoughts you may have as I would like to try to figure out what is going on. I have several short videos of the cycles the flashing lights on both the charger and the LED collar on the car are going through if those would be helpful. Or, would it be more helpful for Tesla to look at the logs for my car? Thank you for any insights you may have.
     
  10. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    Red to white to red to white repeating itself without having to reset the HPWC in between can be a number of things. First I would make sure the connector is plugged all the way into the adapter (which should already be twist-locked into the car). Hold the thumb latch all the way towards the Roadster while plugging the MS connector in. Then release the latch slowly and make sure it springs all the way back. This problem can also be caused by dirty contacts in the MS connector. Make sure they are clean. This is quite common and a lot of MS have the same issue. Good chance this is what's going on in your case because pressing the button on the connector "fixed it." Why? Because pressing the button juggled the connector a little and enabled better contact on the signal or ground pin. Don't laugh - I've seen it many, many times, on Model S as well.

    Codes 8, 5 and 3 all mean the HPWC needs servicing. 8 they recommend you contact Tesla. 3 is a bad contactor in the unit. With the new units, 5 means the same thing as 8. If you contact Tesla and tell them you are getting codes 3, 5, and 8 while charging from this unit, they might want to replace it. I wouldn't tell them you're charging a Roadster unless they ask.

    The ground fault could be anywhere but generally it's in the car. Your Roadster has high ground leakage when it first starts charging. Then it drops fairly quickly. That's why it would charge reliably once it starts for a few seconds.

    You can send me the videos via PM or email.
     
  11. JohnGarziglia

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    Henry, thank you so much for all of your observations and advice above while I was trying to charge my roadster at one of the new Tesla destination charging stations. I really appreciate it. If you are ever in the Washington DC area, let me buy you lunch or something to try to return the favor.

    In the end, it is so simple, I think. I say I think because I did not have an opportunity to extensively do more testing since I was departing and only discovered how to make my roadster reliably work with the Tesla charger on the morning of my departure. But I also stopped at another new B&B Tesla destination charger on the way back and my roadster reliably charged.

    The evening after you sent your message above I read through the entire 45 pages of this post, something I probably should have done before but had not. Somewhere in the middle was a description of several Can SR beta testers having to hold in the thumb latch for several seconds before and after plugging in to successfully start charging. You also suggested above:
    So, having tried just about everything else but doing that with the thumb latch (having not thought about doing that), I tried holding in the thumb latch while plugging in the Model S connector to the Can SR.

    Yes! The car sharted charging just like it should, working perfectly. This was the same charging station at which the three evenings before I had plugged and unplugged the car, and waited while various error cycles occurred, pressed the reset button the Tesla charger, wiggled the wires, shaken the charging unit and tried just about everything else I could think of to try to get it to start charging in a way that did not appear to be random (i.e. after many error cycles, charging eventually started -- see my post above).

    In hindsight, prior to reading all of the pages of this posting, I did not realize that the Can SR thumb latch did more than just clicking the Tesla connector into place. I see now, however, that it also apparently has an internal electrical function.

    So in summary, now I know that to reliably initiate charging for my roaster on a Tesla Model S charger, hold in the thumb latch, plug in the Model S connector, and then release the thumb latch several seconds later.
     
  12. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    Thanks for this post - I'm so glad to hear it's working better. Yes, the thumb latch includes a switch that stops charging when you release the connector. It's perfectly safe to stop charging this way. I really need to make a short 1 minute video on using the CAN SR. A lot of people still don't realize you're supposed to insert the adapter into your Roadster before inserting the Model S connector. Many people don't realize it's designed to be used with one hand. Most people can store it between the seats and pull it out by the drawstring on the bag. (I've heard this doesn't work if your seat is pulled forward too far.) And of course all the things you mentioned!
     
  13. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,355
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Back at the new charger today and I was in a hurry so on the off chance I just plugged in but held the thumb latch in for a few seconds (maybe 4-5 secs) then let go....Hey presto! Everything worked fine, car charged exactly as it had with the old charger.

    Previously I've always been in the habit of attaching the adaptor to the car and then just inserting the HPWC MS plug, but it's really easy if these newer HPWCs just need the latch to be held for a second.
     
  14. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    I'll feel better after you've used that HPWC a few times. Sounds like good news, though.
     
  15. norty

    norty Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    UK
    hi Henry, like Simon, I'd be happy to help testing and am very keen to see the EU type 2 can for the Roadster
    Mark
     
  16. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    That discussion is happening here Europe-Roadster-adapter.

    The testing is already taking place. Send me a PM to get on the list.
     
  17. JohnGarziglia

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Reston, Virginia
    Henry, I am pleased to report that I took another weekend trip in my Roadster this past weekend to a recently installed Tesla destination charger (this time The Bellmoor Inn & Spa, Rehoboth Beach). Despite my initial issues in using the CAN SR with my Roadster at two Tesla destination chargers (see posts #447-452 above), the charger at the Bellmoor Inn worked perfectly for several charging sessions by holding in the thumb latch for a few seconds while inserting the Tesla charging connector. Now, I just need to get back to the one Tesla destination charger that did not initially work with my Roadster (the one at the The Mimslyn Inn, Luray, VA where I did not try holding in the thumb latch) and see if holding in the thumb latch there solves the issue where I was unable to charge using that charger (at the Mimslyn Inn I got the red LED ring and charger fault error message described in posts #447-452).
     
  18. hcsharp

    hcsharp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,994
    Location:
    Vermont
    Good to hear! Thanks for the report!
     
  19. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,355
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Data point update: I plugged in at the HPWC that had been troublesome previously and tried the thumb latch trick, didn't work, tried again, didn't work. Remembered that I was late for my board meeting so left the car and made a mental note to check the fault lights later. However, I had left the car plugged in and when i came out an hour later it was fully charged. Will be back there again next week so I'll try again and see if I get fault lights.
     
  20. Roadrunner13

    Roadrunner13 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2013
    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Montreal
    Just used my SR Can for the first time this week at a friends place to top off before going to ICAR and do quarter miles run against his 85D.
    it worked like a charm!
    Thanks Henry!!!
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC