HPWC vs. 14-50 NEMA and need for dual charger?

[murphyS90D]

The ferrule adds even more size. Tesla's wires have them, and they fit, but they are AWG4. Since Tesla is going out of the terminal block with only AWG4, there will be increased resistance already at the terminal block.

I have installed AWG 2 wire with crimped ferrules into my Tesla EVSE. They fit. It must be the right crimper, it can't be done with a pair of pliers. Basically what happens is the round wires are reformed into square wires which eliminates the air space that is between round wires. It takes a lot of pressure to do that.

 

[whitex]

I have installed AWG 2 wire with crimped ferrules into my Tesla EVSE. They fit. It must be the right crimper, it can't be done with a pair of pliers. Basically what happens is the round wires are reformed into square wires which eliminates the air space that is between round wires. It takes a lot of pressure to do that.

I can see that with enough pressure you can reshape the copper. I don't have that type of crimper unfortunately (care to share what type it is, maybe an amazon link?). I did manager to squeeze AWG2 into the rectangular terminals with bottom entry, it just it was a lot of pain. Note that for top entry mounting bracket the terminals are round, not rectangular like the actual HPWC connection.

 

[murphyS90D]

I can see that with enough pressure you can reshape the copper. I don't have that type of crimper unfortunately (care to share what type it is, maybe an amazon link?). I did manager to squeeze AWG2 into the rectangular terminals with bottom entry, it just it was a lot of pain. Note that for top entry mounting bracket the terminals are round, not rectangular like the actual HPWC connection.

This is the one that I have but it doesn't appear to be available directly from Amazon now.

https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Non-in...pID=510M1fWQPDL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

This appears to be the same set and is available on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-Crimpi..._rd_t=40701&psc=1&refRID=P1YP02359JHT82BXD1MH

 

[SSedan]

Thank you for posting those links been looking and hadn't come up with that yet.

 

[D.E.]

Not suggesting, just asking...

Instead of the ferrule, could the end of the wire be soldered so you still have a solid block at the end but without the ferrule making the end bigger? Does it matter if the solid end is essentially copper/lead/tin instead of just copper in a copper ferrule as long as all the copper strands are used in the solid end?

 

[JohnnyG]

Not suggesting, just asking...

Instead of the ferrule, could the end of the wire be soldered so you still have a solid block at the end but without the ferrule making the end bigger? Does it matter if the solid end is essentially copper/lead/tin instead of just copper in a copper ferrule as long as all the copper strands are used in the solid end?

The problem with tinning is that solder is soft. If the thick heavy gauge wire isn't heated sufficiently, the solder just sticks to it, as opposed to bonding with it. The strands are still independent, and can move independently. Depending on the situation, the solder can soften / crack / compress / detach from the copper, and the connection will become loose. Loose wires / loose connections create resistance. Resistance creates heat. Heat creates fires. In general, with screw type connectors, use solidcore wire or put ferrule connectors on the ends of stranded wire.

Not specific to our exact use case, but similar enough for a good example...
To Ferrule or Not to Ferrule?

 

[D.E.]

The problem with tinning is that solder is soft. If the thick heavy gauge wire isn't heated sufficiently, the solder just sticks to it, as opposed to bonding with it. The strands are still independent, and can move independently. Depending on the situation, the solder can soften / crack / compress / detach from the copper, and the connection will become loose. Loose wires / loose connections create resistance. Resistance creates heat. Heat creates fires. In general, with screw type connectors, use solidcore wire or put ferrule connectors on the ends of stranded wire.

Not specific to our exact use case, but similar enough for a good example...
To Ferrule or Not to Ferrule?

So if I flux and heat the wire, then apply solder, then after cooling, cut through the cable where it should be a solid piece and check to make sure it is solid and bonded with all the wires do you think it would be OK? I think the problem is going to be getting the entire end of the cable hot enough to bond without melting insulation away from the soldered end. In fact, I don't think I'd be able to do it, copper transports heat too well, I'm afraid the end will be hard to heat and nearby cable will be about as hot. Never mind.

Thanks for answering. I don't think I thought this through.

 

[whitex]

If going through the top entry with the additional terminal block, it seems to be it will be the same or less effort to fit the AWG2 into the round terminal hole that it would be to fit it into the ferrule (obviously the ferrule has to be smaller than the terminal hole). I do wish I thought of the ferrules for the bottom entry install I did though, with the rectangular terminals.

 

[SoCalNick]

Dumb question. The 14-50 NEMA outlet has 4 connectors. The HPWC has three connectors.
I'm having an electrician friend run cables for me next week.
How many wires should he be running?

I'm installing the HPWC on the outside of the house, but also installing a 14-50 inside the garage. The idea is that the car will likely be parked outside, and use the HPWC, but should that break, I would like to plug in with the UMC on the inside of the garage.

I'm assuming we can put both on the same circuit, to be use ONLY one at a time.
Is there an issue putting the 14-50 on the 90A circuit (with 90A breakers.)

Thanks.

 

[csanders90D]

The 14-50 has 4 wires for hot-hot-neutral-ground, but the Tesla UMC doesn't use the neutral. Other things that plug into the 14-50 (such as RVs) can use the neutral and 1 hot to get a 120v source or use 2 hots to get 240v. Don't wire a 14-50 with only the 3 wires that the UMC needs. This can cause serious trouble (fire/electrocution) to some future user of that outlet who plugs in an RV or other load that expects a neutral.

You can't put a 14-50 outlet onto a 90A breaker. You might be able to let the HPWC and 14-50 share a single 50A breaker, I'm not sure what the rules are for having a switch such that they can't both be used at once. A 50A breaker is more than enough to charge overnight, 90A is only important if you drive a ton and need mid-day charging.

 

[brkaus]

I'm assuming we can put both on the same circuit, to be use ONLY one at a time.
Is there an issue putting the 14-50 on the 90A circuit (with 90A breakers.)

No, you cannot. If something bad happens with the 14-50 it will turn to fire and smoke well before the 90A breaker trips.

You might be able to use a small 8 slot breaker panel as a sub-panel and wire the HPWC & 14-50 from there, each on it's own breaker. Depends on your layout.

Even if you put in a 50a breaker and runt it to two devices and it is legal (I'm not convinced), your going to need to split the wire. Those splitters are expensive and need to go in a box, so a small sub-panel likely would not cost any more.

Finally, per recent code, if your jurisdiction requires it, the 14-50 should be on a GFCI breaker. Most do not seam to be enforcing this right now.

 

[brkaus]

Adding a link to a heavy gauge 3-way Polaris multi-tap -

Polaris 3/0 - 6 AWG Bagged Insulated Multi-Tap Connector, Black-IPL3/0-3B - The Home Depot