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HPWC vs 15-40 charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Larry, Sep 15, 2013.

  1. Larry

    Larry Member

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    Doing my at home set up and not sure I want to install the hpwc. From a cost standpoint with PGE is there any difference which is used or is the same amount of electricity used just in 1/2 the time as far as kwh's/$. For me the time of charging is not an issue as I only drive 40-60 miles/day.

    Thanks
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    No cost benefit.
    Benefits:
    1) Astheticly nicer
    2) Convenient
    3) More durable
    4) More rapid charging (if you have twin chargers) when/if you ever do need it.
     
  3. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    ...you can also then leave your UMC and adapters in the bag in the trunk of your S.
     
  4. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    What's a 15-40?

    I'll assume you meant 14-50, which is perfectly sized for a single charger. If go dual charger you'll have faster charging when you get access to higher amp chargers like those at the stores. Some chargers in the wild are > 40 amps, but they tend to be few.

    The HPWC is very convenient once it is installed. But so is a second UMC and a NEMA 14-50 socket. And the HPWC is about twice the cost.
     
  5. SamGarber

    SamGarber S85 "Whale Shark"

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    I was debating what to do on this also - based on my observations and helpful answers on the forums I decided to keep my HPWC (I wanted twin charges anyway) since it was the prevalent opinion that keeping the UMC with the car is a good thing and the HPWC cord is much more durable for the garage. Also - in my case the installation of the 100A infrastructure for the HPWC was a wash when compared to the 50A for the 14-50 outlet.

    My suggestion is to check what will cost more to install since that can significantly add to the cost of the actual HPWC. I managed to save some money using Angie's List coupons for electrical contractors.
     
  6. Larry

    Larry Member

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    Have to have the wiring installed so Ill go with the HPWC. Thanks for the input.
    Larry
     
  7. tpoltron

    tpoltron Member

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    I pulled 6 gage wire to a 14-50 socket to our garage 4 months ago and it's been all we needed. In fact it worked so well I got an electric Fiat 500e and have been happily charging both from the one socket (tho my wife does charge her MS at her office Yahoo every now and then).
     
  8. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    I think the NEMA 14-50 is much more durable than any HPWC.
     
  9. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    My NEMA 14-50 cost $209 to install. They are so standard and easy for any electrician that it is the cheapest option.
    Done. Never need anything else at home.
    240 volts at 40 amps is more than enough for home use.

    Donate your HPWC to a useful location for public use and post it on http://www.plugshare.com/
     
  10. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    I meant the HPWC is more durable than a UMC.
     
  11. SamGarber

    SamGarber S85 "Whale Shark"

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    I think it really depends on the length of the run from your panel. If mine was in the garage, I am sure I would have paid less.
     
  12. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    I think the UMC is better than the HPWC

    - - - Updated - - -

    Agreed. I see no practical reason for a HPWC.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Everyone gets an opinion, but the HPWC is, by necessity, built to be much more rugged than the UMC. Heavier shielding, heavier gauge wire, etc. so I don't know how you've arrived at your opinion.

    There are many practical reasons. While most situations can be worked around, it means fully double the amount of charge time. While for standard daily driving that is irrelevant, there are plenty of situations where w/o my HPWC it would have meant a several hour delay in being able to take a trip, or being forced to take one of my ICE vehicles. For the benefit of people traveling though my part of the country a HPWC is an extremely practical tool to save many many hours of charge time and facilitate travel.

    I see a lot of people say that EVs are "not practical" as if their personal definition of what is practical applies to everyone else. Let's not get that way with HPWCs too. For some of us it is extremely practical, just because it isn't so for you doesn't make it a fact for everyone. A Pickup truck is not practical, for me...but that doesn't mean there aren't people for whom it is the ideal vehicle.
     
  14. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    I see a very limited need for a HPWC for the vast majority of end users.
     
  15. Palpatine

    Palpatine Banned

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    Once Superchargers are fully out in the wild (2015) then I agree. HPWC are not needed for most.
    Most people are fine with 40 amps for home, Superchargers for out in the wild.
    We are in a very limited time 2 year window (pre-Supercharger) where the HPWC is useful for some people in limited circumstances.
     
  16. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I only have a single charger. I use the UMC and a 14-50 plug currently. But this is a single point of failure that could strand (after ~150 miles) my car. There is a Service Center ~7 miles from my house, so I could easily get another UMC in hours if necessary.

    But saying all this I think I will in the next year I may buy a HPWC. It is a nice permanent installation. Comes with a nice long cable. And allows me to keep the UMC with me in the car at all times. And if it breaks I have a backup ready to rock. And it is inexpensive for a EVSE of that power rating.

    I much prefer a permanent installation, to my plug in the wall.

    And I think you can deduct some taxes for EVSE installations. 30% the cost of the equipment, not sure about install. And my 14-50 was only about $50 total. Not worth the effort to deduct. My HPWC would be worth a few hundred bucks though, making it comparable to a redundant but ~permanent UMC.
     
  17. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    One thing that occurred to me while contemplating an HPWC over a 14-50 is that it's true that I will rarely need the quick turnaround that 80 amp charging offers. But, my "at home" charging is someone else's "away" charging. The more of us that choose to install an HPWC, the more we create a charging infrastructure to everyone's benefit. Given the aesthetics, increased durability, and convenience, I'm leaning strongly towards adding an HPWC, even though it's likely that others will charge at 80 amps on my HPWC far more often than I will.
     
  18. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but in my work my schedule is irregular and unpredictable: sometimes I do a 40 mile roundtrip and sometimes it is 200+ miles, and I may not have much time between trips. For me the HPWC is very useful.
     
  19. redi

    redi 2013 P85+ with HumanPilot Technology

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    The actual installation should not be all that much different if it is a short run. Mine is right next to the panel. I had space in my panel and sourced the parts and breaker and had the 14-50 installed before my car arrived. Did the same later for the HPWC (sourced the parts directly and just had an electrician do the connections). Each was I think $185. I don't plug in all the time (my garage space is shared with others in the household) so the HPWC is handy since it is quick to top up. If the HPWC ever goes down, the 14-50 is a reasonable standby.
     
  20. jamieb

    jamieb Member

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    Waiting on my car (factory delivery scheduled for 12/21) but I am going with the electrician installing two NEMA 14-50 outlets on either side of the garage to service my new Model S and future-proof for another EV when we replace my wife's Prius in a few years. I do worry that plugging the UMC in and out all the time would lead to wear and tear on the device and I'd prefer to just leave it in the car. I think that Tesla could sell quite a few permanent-mount UMC-like devices, i.e., same form factor as the HPWC but with the guts of the UMC for a permanent wall install. Doubt they'd sell it for less than the UMC, but they wouldn't need all the adapters...
     

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