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HPWCs at public locations as a bridge to Super Chargers?

Discussion in 'North America' started by efusco, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    It might not be worth the trouble, but it might actually help facilitate future SuperCharger expansion if Tesla temporarily installed HPWCs at the future proposed sites for Superchargers. It would act as a "something is better than nothing" option for those of us in areas who don't have a supercharge planned for 2-4 years from now. They could also collect valuable usage data to help plan/adjust the number and location of those future Superchargers.

    Commercial businesses could in expensively start getting an idea about the impact of hosting a charger as well. Finally, Tesla could advertise their "charger network" coverage area much more effectively.

    For those of us impatient for better high speed charging, a HPWC would be a very welcome temporary option while awaiting completion of the Supercharger network and cost to Tesla to do this would be pretty negligible with the potential for increased profits in these more rural areas without the charging network those in more metropolitan areas enjoy.


    Evan, Via Tapatalk
     
  2. dcopperfield

    dcopperfield Member

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    I'd be willing to Donate $1000 for a couple to be setup along routes I typically take from Seattle to Spokane / Chelan, WA
     
  3. Seattle

    Seattle Member

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    check out the pacific northwest section. We are discussing things like this. Under consideration is Port Angeles, and we already have a roadster to model s converter for people who shared the cost in Centralia. With the supercharging coming to Centralia, we are thinking of moving that equipment to Ellensburg
     
  4. elecblue

    elecblue Member

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    I got in touch with a B&B up in Door County, WI and they noted that they would consider it. Also, there's a hotel in WI Dells that is thinking of putting one in (either one of these would get you to UP from IL). Basically, it's convincing a business owner that it would be worth the $ (probably $2k at least) to install. Of course, private parties could install them as well (fellow Tesla owners), and I know of at least one case where this is happening (a friend of mine). So Evan, I think this effort falls largely on the shoulders of Tesla owners (which makes sense - we would benefit from this). I think it's a two-fold campaign: [1] Calling RV parks, hotels, etc. at places in your geographic area that you would want an HPWC and trying to convince them to install one. Perhaps through a local club you could raise some of the funds to help offset the costs. [2] Consider installing one in your area if you live outside of major metropolitan areas. For example, it might be great if you had an HPWC in your area - a full charge in St. Louis would get you to Springfield, and a full charge in Springfield would get you to OK. This would be a nice bridge to get to Dallas-Ft. Worth.

    I will admit that these efforts do no readily translate into success, especially since the Model S has limited presence at this time. However, as more Teslas are on the road, the chances of success increase (i.e., more Tesla traffic).
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    The original post got thrown off topic a bit, so I'm going to give it a one-time bump. But I'm surprised it didn't generate a bit more discussion initially. I like the idea of low (relative) roll-out cost, wider high Level 2 charging coverage as a bridge to the multi-year completion of the supercharger network...I'm I that far out in left field that no one else things this is a reasonable idea?
     
  6. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    This has been discussed a few times in other threads. I think it's a good idea and hope they do it at least for Roadster owners.
     
  7. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    I think arranging of lease deals for the parking spaces is the big hurdle for superchargers anyway, not as much the equipment. So this idea isn't much easier. Tesla isn't going to want to go through the time and expense of negotiating a lease deal until they are ready to install a supercharger.
     
  8. wraithnot

    wraithnot Model S VIN #5785

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    This matches what I heard from a Tesla employee working on the Harris Ranch supercharger (he was pretty friendly and I suspect the same guy has talked with many members of TMC).

    It's probably more likely to happen through efforts like this: Help me build a serious charging network from Los Angeles to Phoenix! - Page 9
     
  9. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Evan, you might have better luck convincing local businesses and such to go for a comparably-powered generic J1772 charger. I know we're all Tesla people here, but they might be more willing to go for a charger if "anybody" could use it.

    Let me know how you make out. I'm currently trying to do the same thing along the main route where I live and I'm not having much luck. :crying:
     
  10. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    We got the Wisconsin Dells one up and running. Not a HPCW, but a NEMA 14-50 (Same as single charger anyways). Sandrift Resort - The Peach on the Beach in Wisconsin Dells, WI

    Cheers!
     
  11. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    I would guess that the procedure is:
    1. finding the actual site
    2. negotiating a deal
    3. waiting for the permits
    4. installing the equipment
    5. getting it inspected

    Installing an HPWC instead of a supercharger in step 4 seems like a waste of time.
     
  12. Aphysician

    Aphysician Member, Michigan Chapter

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    @ efusco


    You bring up a valid point and I believe Tesla should focus on HPWC as well and not only on Superchargers. Cost to set up an HPWC is negligible when compared to Superchargers. I am not sure whether they should keep the HPWC at supercharger locations, it is alright until superchargers are ready but then HPWC needs to be taken out from there afterwards, otherwise it will lead to increase traffic at supercharger location and cost to build bigger facility. However, Tesla can get important information about patterns and traffic from HPWC at SC locations. HPWC should be used on routes and in the area where Supercharger is not planned, Tesla should avoid the overlap as much as possible. HPWC + Supercharger combo can increase the appeal even further. As far as locations go, Tesla should have an alliance with a major hotel chain, as most people are likely to use HPWC at night to top off. Having random locations is difficult to remember, this way Tesla owners will know that a particular hotel will have HPWC. Good for Hotel's image/business too to have an alliance with Tesla. Another possibility of installing HPWC, is at the city centers. These locations are ideal too, as people will most likely visit the area for 1-2 hours.


    @ elecblue


    If Tesla doesnt plan a HPWC network, then I think owners as a community will have to step up to build an alternative HPWC network. Most likely Tesla won't be interested, as it involves another round of leasing spaces and maintaining spaces (as other have pointed out, the economics of this doesnt make much sense esp. without a major benefit), so our best bet is to convince local businesses in installing chargers. However we should not be greedy and demand chargers just for Tesla owners, but we should allign with other EV community and demand a NEMA charger. Local government would also be interested in building a larger EV community.
     
  13. Mayhemm

    Mayhemm Model S P85+ "Lola"

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    Other than you could have it available for use this year, instead of many years in the future (or not at all). The cost is also a small fraction of SC cost, so this makes it more likely to happen.
     
  14. TI Sailor

    TI Sailor Member

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    IMO $$$ are not a problem, nor is SC equipment availability. As we saw in Illinois, finding, negotiating & reaching agreement on a deal, getting all necessary approvals and then electrical infrastructure in place are the time-consuming portions of the rollout. That said, I don't think it has to be either/or. If the SC's are intended to go into spaces at a mall or outlet center, there's almost certainly a spot near the manager's office or center's utility room where one or more HPWC's could be temporarily placed pending SC completion.

    I also like the idea of partnering with hotel chain(s), local governments, big box stores, etc to make more L2 NEMA charging stations available. I would not expect most managers to restrict EV charging to Tesla Model S's only.
     
  15. Aphysician

    Aphysician Member, Michigan Chapter

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    There are few other ways this problem can be solved.
    (1) Other EVs starts supporting high amp charging. This is not available yet as most EVs have limited range and not likely to be taken on a highway trip. However as battery tech progresses those will have longer range and will need quick charging on highways.
    (2) When there are sufficient EVs with longer range, then public high amp charging stations will increase. There is a good example of that in Canada. See Sun Country Highway and Chargers | Sun Country Highway. See chargers CS-60 and CS-90. These chargers support high amp charging similar to HPWC.
    (3) Tesla then needs to provide adapter and compatibility to use these high amp station. I asked about this to a sales person at Tesla. Currently there are no plans of offering compatibility to any other high amp station. His response was company will monitor various networks (CHAdeMO networks/DC quick charge stations) and may offer compatibility to the best network. I think Blink, Chargepoint and Recargo seems the most likely candidate.
     
  16. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Those are good, but none address the short term issues for Tesla drivers, which was my key point.

    While a group initiated effort to install HPWCs would be nice, the chances of successfully implementing those in the places that really most need them (e.g. where there's a lack of charging infrastructure or long distances b/w key destinations) would be a huge hurdle. I'd like a supercharger b/w Springfield and St.Louis--a HPWC would be adequate b/c in an hour I could have enough charge to easily cover my needs, but how you get the handful of us who currently use that route together to a)come up with the initial purchase and install cost and b)maintain the site would be the nightmare.

    Hence, if Tesla were to establish those leases/contracts and cover the initial install the areas could be prepped for the future superchargers and provide an interim solution for drivers and, most importantly, address some of the concerns of those who are considering a Model S but worried about their ability to "just get in and go".
     
  17. twinklejet

    twinklejet Member

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    Has anyone heard of "couchsurfing"?

    If you have, how about a "couchsurfing" concept throughout the USA for Model S owners since most Model S owners have the HPWC at home - we could have a community where we could simply drop in on a fellow Model S owner's home and borrow their HPWC (paying for what you use of course) assuming someone lives "along the way" of your intended road trip/route where you will need a charge outside of the range of a supercharger. Of course a dedicated website/database has to be set up similar to Welcome to Couchsurfing! - Couchsurfing and this will definitely bring the Tesla community closer!
     
  18. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    There is one--PlugSurfing.org

    Plug surfing app: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fitunes.apple.com%2Fus%2Fapp%2Fplugsurfing%2Fid455198327%3Fmt%3D8&ei=NtOwUYGxH9KHqQHKnoDYDw&usg=AFQjCNEdDhijTUs3nHlvSWBHQ8INaOodnQ&sig2=t4zypCnHC6bp4W2mJgZd6A&bvm=bv.47534661,d.aWM

    The issue, again, we are in a non-heavily populated area, so options are very limited at this time. If Tesla supported the initial infrastructure in the lesser served areas there would be more willing to buy (I think) and then the surfing options would increase.

     
  19. Aphysician

    Aphysician Member, Michigan Chapter

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    @ efusco

    I also agree that till SCs come online, gaps between those should be filled by HPWC. It is costly for owners to install and maintain HPWC, some form of commitment is needed from Tesla. Having commercial partners/alliances seems to be the most logical option, as it will grow business of the partner. HPWC/high amp charging is here to stay and seems to be the most logical solution for range. Most of the SCs are on highways and wont be used for local commutes/short commutes to many places, so Tesla needs to invest in HPWC network as well, or as mentioned above offer compatibility to other network (more longterm). Considering these I have ordered one with twin chargers.
     
  20. gregincal

    gregincal Active Member

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    I disagree that high amp AC charging will ever get much penetration, it just isn't enough of an improvement. I'm sure Tesla will eventually have access to third party DC chargers.
     

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