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Hub Centric Rings Suck

MoreAgain

Member
Nov 23, 2018
370
417
San Diego
Just a quick rant. I hate my hub rings, the plastic ones at least. I got a set to make it easier to put my aftermarket wheels on. They worked great going on, but getting them off is terrible. The felt melted on and I had to chisel them off, rendering them unusable. This can't be right. Maybe the plastic ones are just designed for one-time use. Does anyone have experience with the metal ones? I would hope they would be better. Or is it just better to go without?

20190917_124538.jpg
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,244
11,043
San Diego
Just a quick rant. I hate my hub rings, the plastic ones at least. I got a set to make it easier to put my aftermarket wheels on. They worked great going on, but getting them off is terrible. The felt melted on and I had to chisel them off, rendering them unusable. This can't be right. Maybe the plastic ones are just designed for one-time use. Does anyone have experience with the metal ones? I would hope they would be better. Or is it just better to go without?

View attachment 455985

Well, at least you didn't gall your lugs (can happen if you forget about the rings). I think it's fine to go without. It is kind of a pain to mount the wheels (they're moving around and resting on the lugs so you have to hold the wheel against the rotor hat as you tighten the nuts), but as long as you are very careful about the torquing procedure (doing it evenly), it will be perfectly centric.

That being said, I am wondering if someone can provide the link to hub centric rings that will work with Konig Dekagrams on a P3D+ (I don't need them, but I was idly considering getting some for convenience...but not sure whether all the proper inner and outer diameter rings will clear the ~3mm hub lip...)
 
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FlyNavy01

Member
Apr 30, 2017
425
894
Jacksonville, FL
Tracking a car with plastic hub rings will almost always melt them. I try to get my wheels with the proper center bore machined or run 3mm spacers to clear the lip if you're still running stock rotors.
Well, at least you didn't gall your lugs (can happen if you forget about the rings). I think it's fine to go without. It is kind of a pain to mount the wheels (they're moving around and resting on the lugs so you have to hold the wheel against the rotor hat as you tighten the nuts), but as long as you are very careful about the torquing procedure (doing it evenly), it will be perfectly centric.

That being said, I am wondering if someone can provide the link to hub centric rings that will work with Konig Dekagrams on a P3D+ (I don't need them, but I was idly considering getting some for convenience...but not sure whether all the proper inner and outer diameter rings will clear the ~3mm hub lip...)

These rings should work on the dekgrams (or anything that's 73.1mm to 64.1mm), although I don't think they'll be compatible with the hub lip on the P3D+. I'm still running these 3mm spacers to clear the lip on my aftermarket wheels. They've worked flawlessly and only weigh an ounce or so.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,244
11,043
San Diego
Tracking a car with plastic hub rings will almost always melt them. I try to get my wheels with the proper center bore machined or run 3mm spacers to clear the lip if you're still running stock rotors.


These rings should work for the dekagrams, although I don't think they'll be compatible with the hub lip on the P3D+. I'm still running these 3mm spacers to clear the lip on my aftermarket wheels. They've worked flawlessly and only weigh an ounce or so.

Thanks for the links! That lack of compatibility with the hub lip sure is annoying - your solutions are sound of course. I don't need the spacers with the Dekagrams, and got the wheels with an offset assuming no spacer...so really don't want to add a spacer...will just make efficiency and poke worse (the main reason I have this particular set of wheels). Also the main reason I don't use hub-centric rings (also because I am lazy and put the wheels on myself so I don't really need the rings).

I was curious about the 3mm - so sounds like you can confirm that 3mm thickness of spacer completely eliminates the hub lip. I was curious about that - definitely can't be low on that thickness! The actual rotor hat thickness difference (P3D-/P3D+) is closer to 4-5mm, right? I understand the two measurements (lip height and rotor hat thickness delta) can be different of course.
 
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FlyNavy01

Member
Apr 30, 2017
425
894
Jacksonville, FL
Thanks for the links! That lack of compatibility with the hub lip sure is annoying - your solutions are sound of course. I don't need the spacers with the Dekagrams, and got the wheels with an offset assuming no spacer...so really don't want to add a spacer...will just make efficiency and poke worse (the main reason I have this particular set of wheels). Also the main reason I don't use hub-centric rings (also because I am lazy and put the wheels on myself so I don't really need the rings).

I was curious about the 3mm - so sounds like you can confirm that 3mm thickness of spacer completely eliminates the hub lip. I was curious about that - definitely can't be low on that thickness! The actual rotor hat thickness difference (P3D-/P3D+) is closer to 4-5mm, right? I understand the two can be different of course.
I know the P3D+ rotor hat is only ~2mm thick (steel), so someone would have to measure the non-performance rotor hats to compare, but 4-5mm difference sound about right. I also linked the wrong rings in my original post, but fixed it. The dekagrams have 73.1mm bore and Model 3 is 64.1mm so any rings that convert 73.1-->64.1 should work, ideally aluminum.

Also, 3mm is about the thickness of 4 credit cards stacked together of extra poke, which should have near zero effect on aero drag, but I understand why some people avoid spacers if possible.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,244
11,043
San Diego
, which should have near zero effect on aero drag, but I understand why some people avoid spacers is possible.

True. Thanks for the info. I just don't like it on principle, and it's really more the second thing I guess. Just extra stuff to fiddle with, and not "the way it was designed." I also don't like anything that if it's not included could result in a poor wheel mount (like a hub centric ring without a spacer...could potentially be screwed up I guess). Obviously splitting hairs.
 
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MoreAgain

Member
Nov 23, 2018
370
417
San Diego
Tracking a car with plastic hub rings will almost always melt them. I try to get my wheels with the proper center bore machined or run 3mm spacers to clear the lip if you're still running stock rotors.

I think I'll do without the rings. I change the wheels myself and it will just save time and aggivation when putting the stock wheels back on for the drive home from the track. I have RWD with MPP 365mm rotors on front and stock on the back.
 
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Visionary

Member
Mar 16, 2019
161
36
NY / FL
With the 3mm spacers on the performance do you need to switch to longer wheel studs as I'd imagine your loosing some thread engagement. Also the ring would protrude a lip due to the lip of the hub right?
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,244
11,043
San Diego
With the 3mm spacers on the performance do you need to switch to longer wheel studs as I'd imagine your loosing some thread engagement. Also the ring would protrude a lip due to the lip of the hub right?

No. Studs are the same length as on the non-P so there is 4-5mm “margin.” (There is 4-5mm more stud exposed by the much thinner rotor hat.). By adding a 3mm spacer you’re making it about the same as the non-P essentially - you’ll actually still have perhaps 1-2mm more stud length than a non-P even after adding the 3mm.

The ring can’t add any offset. That would be catastrophic. That’s why the spacer has to be added if you want to use hub-centric rings for P3D+ (unless it is some special custom ring I suppose?). Once the spacer is in place all will be well since it is a standard situation of matching the hub bore to the wheel bore (assuming the right ring of course).
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
9,244
11,043
San Diego
I think I'll do without the rings. I change the wheels myself and it will just save time and aggivation when putting the stock wheels back on for the drive home from the track. I have RWD with MPP 365mm rotors on front and stock on the back.

It seems like you could just do aluminum, no? Shouldn’t be too much aggravation. You’ll find there is some different annoyance from not having the rings (as I alluded to above). Not as bad as melted rings though.
 

MoreAgain

Member
Nov 23, 2018
370
417
San Diego
It seems like you could just do aluminum, no? Shouldn’t be too much aggravation. You’ll find there is some different annoyance from not having the rings (as I alluded to above). Not as bad as melted rings though.
Yes, I might try the metal rings if I find it too difficult to mount without.
 

RocketMan88

Member
Sep 18, 2019
58
123
Bend, OR
I think I'll do without the rings. I change the wheels myself and it will just save time and aggivation when putting the stock wheels back on for the drive home from the track. I have RWD with MPP 365mm rotors on front and stock on the back.
I know this is an old thread, but fyi... not having the hub centric rings toasted my rotors according to Tesla. So make sure you have them. They are really tough to get fit right though
 

SK360

Member
Aug 20, 2019
359
480
Pittsburgh, PA
Discount tire direct sent me 73 -> 70.1mm metal hub rings with my wheels. I’m wondering if they sent these to fit around the “lip”, I haven’t tested them yet.
 

Dolemite

is my name
Sep 19, 2019
1,128
1,358
ol' Virginny
That being said, I am wondering if someone can provide the link to hub centric rings that will work with Konig Dekagrams on a P3D+ (I don't need them, but I was idly considering getting some for convenience...but not sure whether all the proper inner and outer diameter rings will clear the ~3mm hub lip...)
Pics?
 

dsgerbc

Member
Jun 4, 2019
463
320
Michigan
Maybe the plastic ones are just designed for one-time use. Does anyone have experience with the metal ones?
This is correct. Plastic ones should be viewed as one time use in a car that sees some performance use. If you get more in a performance car that is tracked or generally driven hard in hot climate consider yourself lucky .

Metal (aluminum) ones tend to stick to the hub due to galvanic corrosion, if left in place for an extended period. Good luck chiseling those off after it happens. They are okay for track wheels though, if you take them off often.

So, plastic is fine for wheels that see no action. Aluminum is good for track. Personally, I don't use any. Just take your time mounting wheels.
 

Xenoilphobe

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,578
4,276
Fairfax County, Virginia
There are plenty of direct bolt on wheel options, I also try and avoid spacers and hub centric rings, why would anyone use plastic ever with the high stress heat cycles that the brakes make, (especially when running on a tight track).

Have you checked out the new martianwheels.com or even the titan-7.com wheels that are direct bolt on's? They range in weight 17.3 lbs to 18.5 depending on width and offsets in 18 inch and are designed for track use (their lifetime structural warranty isn't voided if you use them on track unlike other vendors).

 
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beastmode13

Supporting Member
Aug 6, 2018
909
1,157
NorCal, USA
These elcheapo aluminum ones from AMZ worked great. Apply a thin layer of high temp grease on the contact surface of ring collar and hub collar will make removal easier during track wheel swap.

GDSMOTU 4pc Alloy Aluminum 72.6mm OD to 64.1mm ID Hub Centric Rings - Performance Hubrings for 64.1 Vehicle Hubs with 72.6 Wheels Center Bore https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06ZY931VS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_bf8yEbN149HR5
 
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GLM3

Member
Nov 27, 2019
118
71
Wisconsin
These elcheapo aluminum ones from AMZ worked great. Apply a thin layer of high temp grease on the contact surface of ring collar and hub collar will make removal easier during track wheel swap./QUOTE]

Yes to this recommendation. I use anti-seize when I had to use rings and never had a problem with removing the rings. If using aluminum make sure you pick the correct anti-seize. I've had steel seize with aluminum parts using the wrong anti-seize.

Someone suggested not installing the rings. In my opinion, that's a bad decision. Based on my experience you will most likely get a small vibration in the car and possible mechanical failure. One G plus braking when your front wheels have the freedom of slight movement could lead to all kinds of problems.

GLM
 

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