Huge Supercharger expansion planned in California in 2017 and beyond

[SageBrush]

Now that the free/unlimited/lifetime Supercharger status is gone, and all new cars only get 400kWh/year of free charging and then they have to pay, I think we will see that over time the "local abuse" issue will fade away.

So that presumably leaves apartment dwellers that want to buy a Tesla as the reason to place SC's in urban areas. I'm skeptical that the market is big enough to go after and I prefer that people vote with their wallets to force apartment complexes to install overnight charging facilities, but Tesla has proven me wrong enough times that I am hopeful I am wrong again and the urban SC build-up proves to be a smart move.

 

[cpa]

Don't take the "coming soon" pin locations literally. And when you tap on one of those locations it may say either something like "targeted for by the end of 2017" or "opening date not yet confirmed".

Not all of the new locations in gray are going to try to be open by end of 2017. Many will take longer.

I agree with the above. Fresno is slated for a second Supercharger, and the pin is located just east of freeway 41 between SR99 and the SR180 junction. This area is sketchy at best, but is close to City Center. The current Supercharger that is about 12 miles away to the northwest remains red on their map. I would think that the shops around highway 41 north of Herndon would be a better candidate. More upscale, and a lot of things to do while grabbing some electrons.

Similarly, there is a pin for Tejon Ranch that appears to be at Gorman. Maybe Tesla will be placing Superchargers at the top of the Grapevine, but there is not much at Gorman. My money is that Tesla will open a second Supercharger near the current Tejon Ranch location on the east side of Interstate 5.

Manteca is grey as well.

I think the pins are grey at existing locations because Tesla will be expanding those sites. Maybe Tesla will see this error and fix the pin designation for those locations.

This is a fantastic undertaking! Even if Tesla hit 50% of their intentions by the end of the year, this will be great!

 

[ecarfan]

Fresno is slated for a second Supercharger, and the pin is located just east of freeway 41 between SR99 and the SR180 junction. This area is sketchy at best, but is close to City Center.

Many of the grey pins are placed right at the city name on the map. I take that to mean the pin location is not exactly where the new Supercharger will actually be located.

there is a pin for Tejon Ranch that appears to be at Gorman.

What I see is a grey pin at the Lebec Road exit off the 5. Gorman is several miles south of there.

Manteca is grey as well.

Yesterday there was a single grey pin at Manteca. Today there is a red pin exactly at the current Supercharger location and a grey pin at the word "Manteca", at the center of the town.

There were many corrections made to the new Supercharger map pins overnight. This has been posted about in various threads today.

 

[abasile]

So that presumably leaves apartment dwellers that want to buy a Tesla as the reason to place SC's in urban areas. I'm skeptical that the market is big enough to go after and I prefer that people vote with their wallets to force apartment complexes to install overnight charging facilities, but Tesla has proven me wrong enough times that I am hopeful I am wrong again and the urban SC build-up proves to be a smart move.

Yes, installing charging facilities at apartments and workplaces is the right thing to do. Getting cities to put EVSEs curbside would also make a difference. However, it can take years to convince HOAs, rental property owners, employers, cities, etc. to install charging. Many will not want to spend the money until there are far more EVs on the road - it's a chicken and egg problem.

Meanwhile, Tesla can get ahead of the curve by allowing urban dwellers to essentially treat local Superchargers as "gas stations". This will get more EVs on the road and, in my opinion, will ultimately increase demand for overnight and all-day charging facilities. I think most people would prefer not to have to rely on Superchargers all of the time.

In addition, in-town Supercharging is helpful for out-of-town visitors, particularly those who may be staying for a few days or longer and need to drive around the city.

 

[ecarfan]

Regarding Teslas announced 2017 Supercharger plans: I am starting to see a pattern here, with Tesla expanding existing California Supercharger locations. This isn't the only one that is being expanded. We know that Barstow, Dublin, and Rocklin are being expanded as well.

And that seems like a smart way to expand the Supercharger network: doing deals with the property owners they currently have agreements with to expand an existing site as opposed to finding a new site to build a Supercharger.

Yes, there are still "holes" in the Supercharger network that need to be filled in. But in many parts of California there are no holes, just not enough charge pedestals at a specific location.

 

[jeffro01]

My primary concern is beginning to shift from number of stalls and availability to the ongoing issues with thermal throttling and the need for better thermal management within the entire system... Air cooled doesn't seem to be effective at scale, especially in warm/hot climates...

Jeff

 

[wdolson]

When I went down to California last October slow supercharging at a number of CA superchargers was a pain. The worst was Gilroy where I got stuck on one that was bouncing around from 8 KW to 50 KW spending most of it's time at the lower rate. I had to reschedule an appointment I had in Morro Bay because of it.

 

[ohmman]

I'll be interested to see if the expanded locations have less thermal throttling due to lower use. I don't think high usage dictates throttling per se, but it certainly appears correlated with it.

 

[cpa]

I'll be interested to see if the expanded locations have less thermal throttling due to lower use. I don't think high usage dictates throttling per se, but it certainly appears correlated with it.

I agree with you, Ohmman. There appears to be some sort of correlation. Whether it is in the connection or the charger stack is unknown. I do not know enough about connections and dust and dirt but those items could play a small role in reduced charging speeds.

As the hot weather is now returning to the dry interior valleys, it will be interesting to see whether or not we see this pattern developing again as temperatures soar into triple digits and Superchargers get used repeatedly by travelers.

 

[Ulmo]

I'll be interested to see if the expanded locations have less thermal throttling due to lower use. I don't think high usage dictates throttling per se, but it certainly appears correlated with it.

In my last trips over the last two weeks, I used a bunch of old and new SuperCharger stalls (Manteca, Dublin, Gustine and Gilroy) all with the upgraded cables, and one thing I noticed, especially at Dublin & Manteca, is that all of the new SuperCharger cables came out of my car after charging at a fairly consistent high rate with the handle cool to the touch (70kW at Dublin & 100kW at Manteca, and my car maxes out at 99kW). The SuperCharger cable handles before this last few weeks always seemed to come out like a hot potato fresh out of the oven.

I don't have nearly enough data to come to any conclusions, but I'm hoping they finally fixed the hot cable issue.

As I sit here thinking about it, maybe some of their "preventative maintenance" of replacing the charging cables and some of the inverter (series?) switches introduced some sort of better balanced electricity that didn't have some odd heat buildup in the handle due to it absorbing some sort of lack of balance or something. Or more simply, they may have introduced some sort of in-cable cooling elements that simply keep that stuff cool, and some superior physics in the connector (such as the way it touchs, grips, etc. the car connection).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing if these improvements are real.

 

[PowerSource]

Hilarious... the downey supercharger location was supposed to be the original location for manufacturing of the Model S.

 

[Ulmo]

Hilarious... the downey supercharger location was supposed to be the original location for manufacturing of the Model S.

I don't see much spare room down there.

 

[David99]

My primary concern is beginning to shift from number of stalls and availability to the ongoing issues with thermal throttling and the need for better thermal management within the entire system... Air cooled doesn't seem to be effective at scale, especially in warm/hot climates...

It can't be therman issues. I bought my car in March 2014. During the first summer I drove in hot areas (Arizona, California, Nevada) during the summer I never had any reduction in the charge rate. I remember many occasions where it was well over 100 F and I watched the charge rate closely because I was expecting it to drop lower than normal. It never dropped and it never tapered faster than normal. The Superchargers were rock solid and reliable. Over the years I had a random slower rate here and there but it was definitely not related to temperatures as it was in various climates and conditions. It was rare.

Just recently have I (and many others) seen a reduced or unstable charge rate more often. After they swapped out the cables of most Superchargers. So I highly doubt it is thermal issues. I believe Tesla did see some potential issues and that's why the swapped out all those cables and they probably lowered the threshold of several parameter so that the charge rate is reduced earlier than it would have under the original Supercharger setup. In other words, they might have set the temperature limits much lower so the safety system kicks in quicker causing the reduced charge rate. I would assume it kicks in too early. I'm going on a longer road trip soon where I will have to charge at 15 different Superchargers. I will monitor and log everything well and keep ice packs to cool the cable should I experience any reduced charge rate and see if cooling the handle/cable will make any difference.

 

[Ulmo]

The switches I mentioned earlier (inside the charger cabinets) still are one (low) possibility. Another is "demand charge" response by Tesla, to help cool down the PG&E transformers and/or wires or available electricity at the moment or maximum costs Tesla is trying to limit, or other factors. Another is heating due to continual use over a longer period of time than one car charge. Another is a yet newer version of cables that is superior to the already upgraded cables from before. And your theory that they have been adjusting the thresholds is also there in the mix of probabilities. We still don't know for sure. It likely includes them adjusting the thresholds.

 

[PowerSource]

I don't see much spare room down there.

It was the old nasa space shuttle facility but now redeveloped into a shopping center. Tesla was going to manufacture the S here before NUMMI became available

Tesla near deal to build cars in Downey

 

[wdolson]

I think the Downey location was originally the Vultee aircraft plant. Vultee built trainer aircraft, a dive bomber for the British, and sub-assemblies for other aircraft during World War II.

 

[ecarfan]

To make it easier for people to quickly see which California Supercharger sites have been expanded or are confirmed to be in the process of expanding, I have added a note after the site thread title for the expanded stations. Just scan the thread titles in the forum at California Supercharger locations

If I've missed any, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[bakerboy]

I think the Downey location was originally the Vultee aircraft plant. Vultee built trainer aircraft, a dive bomber for the British, and sub-assemblies for other aircraft during World War II.

I actually work right around the corner from this area, the entire area is now re-developed with restaurants, shopping and movie theaters. There is an area towards the back side (South East side: Bellflower Blvd & Apollo Way) that is sort of empty, I'm hoping to start seeing signs of superchargers going up. They did keep the front of the "Vultee aircraft plant" in tact and is veiwable from Lakewood Blvd:


Promenade at Downey Home


WHAT A HISTORY

Google Maps



Live cams!!

Downey Studios, LLC - Promenade at Downey - Construction Camera by EarthCam

 

[roblab]

But now that new owners are paying for charging, they're not abusing them. The old owners on the other hand...

The old owners watched as newER local owners blocked superchargers while long distance drivers had to wait in line. The first owners were educated. Charging at home, on a 220 volt plug, was pushed. Supercharging was only an dream. Then, later, like 2 years later, the sales people began saying, "AND you can charge for FREE. We are putting in superchargers, some near you!"

Can't say I blame the owners much, but personally, I can't take advantage like that. Supercharging is for long distance travel. 95+% of charging happens at home. If you were to buy a Tesla from me today, I'd make sure you had charging, just like they did when I bought my first S. Charging for charging is Tesla's way of making up for their screw-up.

 

[JasonA-EV]

I will monitor and log everything well and keep ice packs to cool the cable should I experience any reduced charge rate and see if cooling the handle/cable will make any difference.

Can you please log or show the CAN data or temp msg from the handle? I've tried this same experiment and problem is once you throttle down, it'll never ramp back up without unplugging back in. Or stop and starting again.

Another issue is worn connectors with high IR and the controller won't ramp back up once the temperature is past a certain point also.