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HUH??? 250 miles isnt up to standard? wow

Early adopter here. 24x miles is plenty of range for our needs. I hate planning for the exception than the norm as a 200 mile range takes us to 99.9% of our destinations without a second thought. I mean I had a 2015 E-Golf that had a 85 mile range that was fine even for 95% of our day to day needs...

I assume this simply comes down to margins of the Standard Range as it's virtually the same build minus the extra cells and motor.
 

HotIce

Member
Dec 18, 2020
166
106
MD
I see his point. If you're hopping into an electric car, 244 miles of range isn't. reassuring. My buddy has a Model 3 standard range and he's not enjoying the experience in the winter. Once the battery degrades and the cold weather sets in, I can't imagine you'll get anywhere near the rated 244 miles that the standard range Model Y was displaying.
 
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Midnightsun

Member
Nov 29, 2020
653
716
Canada
Realistically unless you are hypermiling you will be hard pressed to achieve 200miles and that would be in perfect conditions. Throw in cold, headwinds or even quite a few other factors and you are probably looking at quite a bit less. Here in winter cold, I doubt you could manage 150miles. Now if everyone could easily achieve the 244 advertised miles, then it would probably still be around IMHO.

My claimed 525km is proving to be around 375 in good conditions the way I drive, not in winter as this is much less. I am not a crazy driver by any means however I do step on from a stop or traffic light and cruise usually about 20kph over the limit on most roads. most of my driving is highway which is not an EV's best place to achieve good milage
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
11,358
6,515
Yeah, I have a Model 3 SR+ and if I knew the Model Y SR was coming when I ordered it at the end of last year, I would have totally gotten it.

Not everyone needs that much range, especially if you live in an area with good SC coverage such that in worse case it means an extra stop and no big deal.

I think unfortunately this may have been a case of egg on Elon's face, as prior to Model Y SR coming out he was saying under 250 EPA was not enough, then it was released (and the usual suspects quickly pointed out it goes against what he was saying) so he may be walking things back.
 

JBT66

Member
Oct 26, 2018
684
412
Florida
I’ve got a LR 3 and find that to be tight. There are several place I need to go that are about 100 miles away, except there are hills. I basically have to find a charging solution for these cases and I’d rather not. I’m really up a creek if something doesn’t go as planned.

This basically means I need to have have access to another vehicle and likely a non EV.
I think 300 or a bit over that really covers most peoples use cases. 400 should be like 99% of them.
 

czbuckeye

Member
Sep 24, 2020
76
41
Ohio
This is how I rationalized the SR purchase. There is an 82 mile EPA range difference between the LR and the SR. Real world is around 60 miles. Will 60 miles make me feel any better when I drive about 45 miles daily with the occasional 180 mile at most trip out of town? With home charging, it was an easy decision for me. If it was only a $2000 difference, it would have been maybe a little tougher decision.
 
I took my SR+ 3 on so many road trips around the midwest. It's amusing how LR owners will make it seem like you're confined to your metropolitan area unless you have 300+ miles of range. Moved on to a 2017 S 75D that has similar range to the SR+ 3 and I have never once thought about or worried about not having enough range. Going on a road trip? Great, just plan on a few more minutes at Superchargers than with an LR.

My first Tesla was an LR RWD 3. When the SR+ came out, I found the value to be compelling enough to sell my LR 3 and saved a boatload on the SR+ instead.
 

czbuckeye

Member
Sep 24, 2020
76
41
Ohio
Also another thought, how is 263 miles acceptable for the Model 3 SR+, but 19 less miles for the Model Y is unacceptable? We are talking around maybe 15 real world miles. I feel like there is some other issue here for Tesla with cannibalizing Model 3 sales, low margins, or something related to the possible upcoming tax credit. To say it is unacceptable when they knew how many miles it is rated for is not a great excuse. It is not like the EPA rated it after it was released. A better reason could have been we wanted to test the market to see how it would impact the business, and we have decided to go in a different direction. Remember, no real PR team to bounce ideas off each other!
 
Also another thought, how is 263 miles acceptable for the Model 3 SR+, but 19 less miles for the Model Y is unacceptable? We are talking around maybe 15 real world miles. I feel like there is some other issue here for Tesla with cannibalizing Model 3 sales, low margins, or something related to the possible upcoming tax credit. To say it is unacceptable when they knew how many miles it is rated for is not a great excuse. It is not like the EPA rated it after it was released. A better reason could have been we wanted to test the market to see how it would impact the business, and we have decided to go in a different direction. Remember, no real PR team to bounce ideas off each other!

I also feel there is certainly more to the story than range. The Y SR was too good of a deal and I'm sure would be eating into sales of other higher-margin trims.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
4,381
4,563
Maryland
Only three possibilities:

1) The Standard Range (SR) Model Y order rate was as expected.
2) The SR MY order rate was higher than expected.
3) The SR MY order rate was lower than expected.

I'm going to go with #3, even after dropping the price of the SR MY by $2,000 US the order rate was lower than expected. Historically US auto buyers buy more vehicle than we need. We buy extra engine cylinders, extra horsepower, 4WD and AWD, tow packages and extra seating. Many buyers probably rarely if ever use more than a quarter of the capabilities of the vehicles they purchase.
 

acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,899
1,887
Richland, WA

That's likely closer to 150 to 160 miles in the winter with some rain or wind. My SR+ (240 miles rated) was around 150 in the winter. Of course you also don't usually supercharge to 100% because of how long 80% to 100% takes and most people would be nervous pulling in under 5% battery at home. So if you assume a 50kWh battery (we haven't been told yet that it's larger) and maybe 325 wh/mi (not a rare number for the Y at winter highway speeds) and then only use 75% of the battery (80% down to 5%) that would be a range of 115 miles from supercharger to supercharger....

This is not far off from what I saw on my SR+ before I traded the Model 3 in. I had rain on the road, 65 mph, some wind, and 34 F temps and my usage jumped to about 305 wh/mi. I charged for 45 minutes to 91% and was 140 miles from home. At 91% with that usage I had a range of 149 miles and I did get home with just a handful of miles left before dead. It's not fun... honestly waiting 45 minutes to charge from like 40% to 91% isn't fun either, especially late at night when a 200 mile trip turned into 400 miles because mountain passes were closed at the last minute due to weather.

I traded in an got a long range Y and feel much better.

I can understand people being stressed out and maybe due to the Y's shape it's a little more hungry with energy when it comes to highway speeds compared to the Model 3...
 
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My thought is there are only going to be more superchargers and other charging stations, so range will become less about literally not making it, and more about just having more frequent stops. Elon’s comments surprise me as 1.) I assume he ultimately signed off on the SR release a few weeks ago, and 2.) Tesla continues to sell used models with well under 250 miles range (MX 75D is 237 miles and several years old). I think 244 miles is enough for many situations.
 

acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,899
1,887
Richland, WA
Also another thought, how is 263 miles acceptable for the Model 3 SR+, but 19 less miles for the Model Y is unacceptable? We are talking around maybe 15 real world miles. I feel like there is some other issue here for Tesla with cannibalizing Model 3 sales, low margins, or something related to the possible upcoming tax credit. To say it is unacceptable when they knew how many miles it is rated for is not a great excuse. It is not like the EPA rated it after it was released. A better reason could have been we wanted to test the market to see how it would impact the business, and we have decided to go in a different direction. Remember, no real PR team to bounce ideas off each other!

I think it's likely that at highway speeds you're not seeing much under 280 wh/mi or so with the Y while the 3 probably could get as low as maybe 260 wh/mi. So your highway range is under 200 with the Y (178 or so) while it's dang near 200 with the 3 (like 192). That doesn't seem like a huge amount, but 200 vs under 200 aren't great reviews on YouTube and Twitter and such. In addition, if you have some bad weather (standing water on the road) or cold weather, that Y is going down to like 140 to 150 while the 3 might still be 170-ish. Again, not a huge difference, but when you see the car advertised as 244 miles and only getting 140 in the winter, it seems really bad when you think about how far 140 miles can take you.
 

acarney

Active Member
Jul 9, 2019
2,899
1,887
Richland, WA
My thought is there are only going to be more superchargers and other charging stations, so range will become less about literally not making it, and more about just having more frequent stops. Elon’s comments surprise me as 1.) I assume he ultimately signed off on the SR release a few weeks ago, and 2.) Tesla continues to sell used models with well under 250 miles range (MX 75D is 237 miles and several years old). I think 244 miles is enough for many situations.

Yes, it's probably do-able, but I suspect he doesn't want to have a car that might be down in the realm of a Mach-E. He wants his cars to always be ahead compared to them. Nothing really touches the Model 3 SR+ right now down near that price range. However, the Mach-E will be down there in the same range for very close to the same price (within a few thousand). I wouldn't be surprised if by next year (or maybe summer) we see the Model Y LR near 350 miles, or if we suddenly got a rear wheel drive version at 350 miles which would be +50 miles compared to the Mach-E...

As it is, the AWD version already is rated about 52 miles more range or so compared to the Mach E
 

czbuckeye

Member
Sep 24, 2020
76
41
Ohio
I think it's likely that at highway speeds you're not seeing much under 280 wh/mi or so with the Y while the 3 probably could get as low as maybe 260 wh/mi. So your highway range is under 200 with the Y (178 or so) while it's dang near 200 with the 3 (like 192). That doesn't seem like a huge amount, but 200 vs under 200 aren't great reviews on YouTube and Twitter and such. In addition, if you have some bad weather (standing water on the road) or cold weather, that Y is going down to like 140 to 150 while the 3 might still be 170-ish. Again, not a huge difference, but when you see the car advertised as 244 miles and only getting 140 in the winter, it seems really bad when you think about how far 140 miles can take you.

I’ve never been that inefficient in my SR even when it had been down to 10 degrees. But based on your calculations with the SR in the most extreme winter example of getting 140 miles instead of 244, that would equal 185 in a LR instead of 326. 185 in a car rated for 326 would bother me even more. I feel like the SR is still a good value as long as you know it’s limitations. For me, the LR would need to have at least 100 more “real world” miles over the SR for me to consider it worthwhile in regards to price.
 
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My buddy has a Model 3 standard range and he's not enjoying the experience in the winter. Once the battery degrades and the cold weather sets in, I can't imagine you'll get anywhere near the rated 244 miles that the standard range Model Y was displaying.

Tell your buddy to move to San Diego. I hear the range on the MY SR is fantastic in the SD winters!
 

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