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A) That list is from nearly 2 years ago and is reported to be out of date
B) I don't disagree (although you may void the warranty changing coolant yourself), except that it's in our contract that to maintain your warranty you must BRING IT TO TESLA. Not perform the work - bring it to them to perform the work.
I think it's a violation of the Magnusson-Moss Act to require that which is why they're not holding people to it. But it's still in the contract verbiage. No denying that.
B) I don't disagree (although you may void the warranty changing coolant yourself), except that it's in our contract that to maintain your warranty you must BRING IT TO TESLA. Not perform the work - bring it to them to perform the work.
I think it's a violation of the Magnusson-Moss Act to require that which is why they're not holding people to it. But it's still in the contract verbiage. No denying that.
jcaspar
Member
To each his own. I can't imagine the service demands of the car changed much in the 9 months after the Service Document came out (my car is one year old). Seems a lot of money to pay for rotating tires, changing wiper blades, brake pads, FOB battery and inspecting the car. Then again, some people don't have a torque wrench and have never changed a set of brake pads. For them, the service plan might be a necessity and a good value.
jcaspar
Member
It came out 8 months before my car was built so not really that old for my P85. Maybe the D will need more service requirements but I doubt it.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
I posted a very recent annual service checklist less than a month ago on the service plan sticky. On mobile or I'd post a link.
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
I will say that I stopped doing my own maintenance many years ago when the cars got so data intensive. I do still insist on changing my own oil in my ICE car... But the real reason for stopping was that the maintenance seems so cheap to me compared to what I can 1: make per hour in my career and 2: the value of spending that time working on polishing my girl or building an addition on my house or hiking, etc. 600 per year is a chunk of change. But there are so many others things that I can do that it is worth it to me in the end.
Am I rationalizing?
Am I rationalizing?
ra-san
Member
Nah, life is a limited time offer. It's up to us to use it as best we can. That leads to different choices for different people, but I'm thinking along the same lines as you.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
Living your life and making the best of it is definitely worth a lot.
The only thing that would annoy me about the service for Model S ist the fact that in contrast to what Tesla always touted as a major advantage of EVs - less maintenance/costs - in reality costs are much higher for Model S service than for every ICE I have ever owned. In the almost eleven years that I have had my BMW for example, I have had to spend less than 1K Dollars on service - alltogether that is! And I have never had to bring any of my cars in every year. The worst was every two years for minor service. I still don't understand why Model S service has to be that expensive and extensive when the car supposedly requires so little maintenance.
The only thing that would annoy me about the service for Model S ist the fact that in contrast to what Tesla always touted as a major advantage of EVs - less maintenance/costs - in reality costs are much higher for Model S service than for every ICE I have ever owned. In the almost eleven years that I have had my BMW for example, I have had to spend less than 1K Dollars on service - alltogether that is! And I have never had to bring any of my cars in every year. The worst was every two years for minor service. I still don't understand why Model S service has to be that expensive and extensive when the car supposedly requires so little maintenance.
I think you need to re-read your ESA because here is what it says:
To maintain the validity of this Vehicle ESA, You must follow correct operations procedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla.
Furthermore, the ESA stipulates that you must provide proof of maintenance, if requested. Why would they ask for proof of maintenance if they are assuming, under this contract, that Tesla is the one doing all of the maintenance? It's quite clear that Tesla does NOT require you to service your car at Tesla service centers. All it says is that you service your vehicle as recommended by Tesla. Tesla does not require Tesla-branded service in order to maintain validity under the warranty.
There is nothing to see here. Elon also posted a blog last year stating that no service at all is required to maintain your warranty coverage:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/creating-world’s-best-service-and-warranty-program-0
Quite clear? Not even close.
The ESA says this:
So it's quite clear that for the ESA to remain valid you must follow all Tesla service recommendations. This is not ambiguous. In your Tesla owner's manual under maintenance, you will read this:
So - putting one foot in front of the other, it's a darn short walk from the Tesla recommended maintenance schedule is quite clear that you must bring the vehicle to them for service, and the recommendation is every 12 months/12.5k miles. Step two is the ESA is invalid if you don't follow the Tesla recommendations. Quite clear indeed. The ESA is invalid if you don't go to Tesla with your car every year and have them service it.
Now, as you have brought up repeatedly, you have an email from higher-ups at Tesla and point to the blog post that the service isn't required for the factory 4 year/50k warranty. Bully for you and for all of us. But I'm not talking about the factory warranty. I am talking about the ESA and you are conflating the two warranties as if they are in any way equal.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
The sentence after the previously quoted bits goes a long way towards weakening the previous sentences.
First of all that sentence only says that doing maintenance within 1000 miles and/or 30 days of Tesla's intervals is treated as having complied with this clause. This sentence could have been constructed in reverse and it would have been much stronger to your point (e.g. "Failure to service within 1,000 miles and/or 30 days of Tesla's recommend intervals will be considered not to be compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA."). That's much stricter because by turning it into a negative makes the and/or mean you have to meet both terms. As it's constructed now it means even if you only did the yearly interval within 30 days of a year you'd be considered compliant. Nor does the clause say that this sentence is the only way to be compliant.
The fact that the sentence is there at all implies to me that there are other ways you could be considered compliant in my opinion. Though I'll admit that isn't terribly clear from the contract.
My advice would be to email Tesla and ask them to clarify how they interpret this clause. If Tesla tells you that you don't have to do any maintenance, then estoppel should prevent them from claiming that the clause means otherwise later. I don't think this situation is nearly as bad as the service plan (once a year versus mileage) since the contract is at least somewhat ambiguous in this case. The service plan agreement is very clear and if Tesla means to only require something else then they should adjust the contract accordingly.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
First of all that sentence only says that doing maintenance within 1000 miles and/or 30 days of Tesla's intervals is treated as having complied with this clause. This sentence could have been constructed in reverse and it would have been much stronger to your point (e.g. "Failure to service within 1,000 miles and/or 30 days of Tesla's recommend intervals will be considered not to be compliant with the terms of this Vehicle ESA."). That's much stricter because by turning it into a negative makes the and/or mean you have to meet both terms. As it's constructed now it means even if you only did the yearly interval within 30 days of a year you'd be considered compliant. Nor does the clause say that this sentence is the only way to be compliant.
The fact that the sentence is there at all implies to me that there are other ways you could be considered compliant in my opinion. Though I'll admit that isn't terribly clear from the contract.
My advice would be to email Tesla and ask them to clarify how they interpret this clause. If Tesla tells you that you don't have to do any maintenance, then estoppel should prevent them from claiming that the clause means otherwise later. I don't think this situation is nearly as bad as the service plan (once a year versus mileage) since the contract is at least somewhat ambiguous in this case. The service plan agreement is very clear and if Tesla means to only require something else then they should adjust the contract accordingly.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.
RESOLUTION IN OUR FAVOR
I reached out to Tesla and got a firm unambiguous response - Tesla service is NOT required to keep the ESA valid. I am CORRECT that the ESA contract does stipulate this, however they are revising the verbiage to be clear that service is NOT required and once it passes through the lawyer pool to make sure it's written to be legal in all states they'll update it and send it to all ESA customers. I am completely satisfied with this outcome, obviously. Well done, Tesla.
I reached out to Tesla and got a firm unambiguous response - Tesla service is NOT required to keep the ESA valid. I am CORRECT that the ESA contract does stipulate this, however they are revising the verbiage to be clear that service is NOT required and once it passes through the lawyer pool to make sure it's written to be legal in all states they'll update it and send it to all ESA customers. I am completely satisfied with this outcome, obviously. Well done, Tesla.
sataponw
Member
I wish they would do the same for the prepaid service plan given that it is so confusing and Tesla is so inconsistent about whether or not we will lose the services we prepaid for if we don't follow the recommended km/timing.
Please explain... how does "you must follow correct operations procedures and have Your Vehicle serviced as recommended by Tesla" mean the same thing as you must have Tesla perform all service on your vehicle? The two are very different and yes, it is very clear to me. I'm sorry it isn't clear to you, but I'm not worried in the slightest. Nowhere in the Owner's manual does it say that you are required to have service performed by Tesla, and nowhere in the ESA does it say that either - it says you must follow Tesla's service recommendations. Tesla service recommendations do not include a requirement to have all service performed by Tesla. Can you show me where it says THAT?
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So you finally admit that I was right... well done, eco5280.
Honestly? Are you messing with me or do you really not know how to read?
The ESA says you must follow Tesla's maintenance schedule. Tesla's maintenance schedule says to bring it to Tesla every year. If you can't follow that, I suggest perhaps you ought not be in the business of reading or writing contracts (as a realtor is often required to do...)
Not in the slightest- you were never right on this issue and are proving yourself to still not understand the ESA contract verbiage.
Until somebody else reaches out to Tesla and gets a completely contradictory response, which is sure to happen, because Tesla has done that so many times before.
AustinPowers
Total Smeghead
@eco5280 and AmpedRealtor: perhaps we should hand you both some pitchforks so you can handle this dispute like real men.
Alternatively, mudwrestling comes to mind... :wink:
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