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HV Battery replacement

Ducatismo

Member
Jun 13, 2019
8
9
Dallas
My 2013 P85 with 30k miles had a sudden battery failure and Tesla has agreed to replace the HV battery under warranty. My service advisor mentioned that it would likely be a refurbished battery. That didn't set well with me and I asked why can't they just replace it with a new one. No response. Is it because it's a older model? Is a refurbished HV battery reliable or comparable to new one? Mind you that I have had the MCU and drive Unit recently replaced as well. After this I'm essentially getting a new car I suppose. Any thoughts are appreciated.
 

ckoval7

Mild One
Sep 19, 2018
665
601
Maryland
They don't make an 85 kWhr battery anymore, so you're definitely not getting a new one. You'll either get an 85 or a 90. There's nothing wrong with getting a refurbished battery. I wouldn't sweat it.
 

Fredneck

Member
Nov 8, 2019
478
-32
Pennsylvania
Not sure what to say. 30 kmiles is not so much. Given how they talk about 100's of thousands of miles of life in these units it would seem 30 kmiles would be nearly new and should be replaced as such. I would be curious about the starting maximum charge a refurbished battery would hold. My 100 kWh battery is down at least 5% after about 25 kmiles. I would not want a refurbished battery to be less than that.

EV batteries are still proprietary and not completely understood even by the makers. So it is hard to know what to expect from a refurbished unit.
 

ewoodrick

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2018
5,285
3,735
Buford, GA
They take the old packs and refurbish them by moving around good batteries. So your battery should as good as any car the same age.
While I know it would be nice to get a brand new battery, that really is asking a little much.
 

Fredneck

Member
Nov 8, 2019
478
-32
Pennsylvania
They take the old packs and refurbish them by moving around good batteries. So your battery should as good as any car the same age.
While I know it would be nice to get a brand new battery, that really is asking a little much.

"Same age"??? Batteries wear by mileage, not age. A 30,000 mile car should have very little wear on the battery.

Where do they get "old packs"??? I'd love to know the details on how they test the cells and move them around. Aren't the connections welded? The pack is built by cementing cells in place. I would expect it to be very expensive to rebuild a pack this way. Kinda like we used to rebuild radiators, but the cost of doing that became too high.
 

ckoval7

Mild One
Sep 19, 2018
665
601
Maryland
"Same age"??? Batteries wear by mileage, not age. A 30,000 mile car should have very little wear on the battery.

Where do they get "old packs"??? I'd love to know the details on how they test the cells and move them around. Aren't the connections welded? The pack is built by cementing cells in place. I would expect it to be very expensive to rebuild a pack this way. Kinda like we used to rebuild radiators, but the cost of doing that became too high.
Bad cells aren't the only thing that can go wrong in a battery pack. When I had my pack replaced, it was because of a faulty sensor. The pack got sent to California, the sensor will get changed out, and someone else will get the pack.
 
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ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
6,912
13,051
California
Tesla is not obligated to provide you with new parts to remedy a warranty claim (nor is any other company for that matter). What they do owe you is a part that performs at least as well as the one they replace.

As others have said, there are no “new” 85kwh batteries to be had in any case. Check the rates range after replacement - so long as it’s as good as or better than the pack they replaced, you’ve gotten what you’re owed.
 

Electric700

Active Member
May 21, 2013
1,733
387
Florida, United States
"Same age"??? Batteries wear by mileage, not age. A 30,000 mile car should have very little wear on the battery.

Where do they get "old packs"??? I'd love to know the details on how they test the cells and move them around. Aren't the connections welded? The pack is built by cementing cells in place. I would expect it to be very expensive to rebuild a pack this way. Kinda like we used to rebuild radiators, but the cost of doing that became too high.

Tesla told me they can replace battery components. I would suppose that for the benefit of Tesla and the customer (looking at both cost and function), it would be much less expensive to have a way to do this, versus a brand new battery.
 

Fredneck

Member
Nov 8, 2019
478
-32
Pennsylvania
Tesla told me they can replace battery components. I would suppose that for the benefit of Tesla and the customer (looking at both cost and function), it would be much less expensive to have a way to do this, versus a brand new battery.

That depends on what is meant by "components". Normally when something is reconditioned, they don't simply repair what is obviously broken. They replace anything that has significant wear. When a starter motor is reconditioned they don't inspect the bearings or brushed, they replace them all and turn the commutator. Then the unit has the equivalent of all new parts and will last a long time.

If dead cells in a battery pack are replaced, that doesn't do anything about the cells that are close to failing. A refurbished battery can have many, many of those. I'd prefer they refurbished the 30,000 mile battery you have. But then maybe it was made with a bad batch of cells that have a short life. Who knows? I'd like to have more insight into exactly what they do when they refurbish the battery pack.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,604
3,640
Colorado, USA
That depends on what is meant by "components". Normally when something is reconditioned, they don't simply repair what is obviously broken. They replace anything that has significant wear. When a starter motor is reconditioned they don't inspect the bearings or brushed, they replace them all and turn the commutator. Then the unit has the equivalent of all new parts and will last a long time.

If dead cells in a battery pack are replaced, that doesn't do anything about the cells that are close to failing. A refurbished battery can have many, many of those. I'd prefer they refurbished the 30,000 mile battery you have. But then maybe it was made with a bad batch of cells that have a short life. Who knows? I'd like to have more insight into exactly what they do when they refurbish the battery pack.
From what I'm told by people @ Tesla service is that, to this point at least, most of they battery packs that are "refurbished" are done so due to other components of the pack failing and not the actual cells. I think that as time goes on this will shift but if you're requesting to know data based on what which has not happened frequently enough to produce useful data you may be let down.
 

GoBlue88

Member
Apr 1, 2014
858
284
Carlsbad, CA
My 2013 P85 with 30k miles had a sudden battery failure and Tesla has agreed to replace the HV battery under warranty. My service advisor mentioned that it would likely be a refurbished battery. That didn't set well with me and I asked why can't they just replace it with a new one. No response. Is it because it's a older model? Is a refurbished HV battery reliable or comparable to new one? Mind you that I have had the MCU and drive Unit recently replaced as well. After this I'm essentially getting a new car I suppose. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Eh, same thing happened to my 2014 S85 and they refurbished my battery (so essentially, I got a refurbished battery - they just refurbished mine instead of giving me a different one). Took them 4 months, but I had a "loaner" battery in the interim. Since I got my refurbished battery back, I've had zero issues with another 50,000 miles put on it. Probably cheaper and quicker now to just give you a refurbished battery from someone else instead of making you wait for your own refurbished battery. A new battery is really asking a bit much.

FYI - I also have had the MCU, drive unit, and pano roof replaced by Tesla. Kind of it like having a mostly new car!
 

Lasttoy

Active Member
Mar 24, 2017
1,616
852
St Augustine, Fl
I'm having battery issues. The 12v battery died while on interstate Sunday. Trailered it home. Now it's fine, not sure about battery pack. Teslafi shows big degradation, 100% is down to 210 miles. Dont know what to do right now?
 

ancreserve

Member
Sep 28, 2012
29
21
United States
Oh the joys of being an early adapter.... but I'm feeling lucky as my Tesla 2014 S with 85k miles, died in the driveway after I got a "needs service" and "car may not restart" alert while I was dropping the wife off at the airport. Car was towed to the the nearest service station(4 hours away) and the next day I got a text from Tesla saying "found an issue with the high voltage battery pack. We will be sourcing a replacement which can take from 1-2 weeks". I've been hoping the car would final die after I got stranded this fall on a road trip 3 miles from a supercharger while my car said I had 27 miles of range left. Since then I've been renting cars when I want to take road trips as the Supercharging was capped at under 100 mi/hr. For the record that is the 3rd time my car has died in the last year, the first one was due to a drive unit failure.
 

ord3r

Member
Jun 27, 2018
234
431
California
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Fredneck

Member
Nov 8, 2019
478
-32
Pennsylvania
Lithium ion batteries do wear by age in addition to wearing by use.

Here is a decent article on this: Solving the problem of lithium-ion battery ageing

There are also quite a few papers/studies on calendar aging in lithium ion cells: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?...batteries&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart

Wear by age is small in comparison to use. While it happens, unless you are a 5,000 miles or less user, it's not likely to impact your battery life.
 

TSLA Pilot

Active Member
Mar 12, 2013
1,824
2,575
United States
"Same age"??? Batteries wear by mileage, not age. A 30,000 mile car should have very little wear on the battery.

Where do they get "old packs"??? I'd love to know the details on how they test the cells and move them around. Aren't the connections welded? The pack is built by cementing cells in place. I would expect it to be very expensive to rebuild a pack this way. Kinda like we used to rebuild radiators, but the cost of doing that became too high.

Incorrect.

Calendar years count for a battery--even if the car had 300 miles on it and was left on a permanent 50% charge, things still happen that keep it from having an infinite lifespan.

Having said that, however, your car is an outlier/edge case. With hundreds of thousands of batteries made by Tesla so far, there are bound to be some. Be thankful for your 8 year, unlimited mile warranty, AND that Tesla, the company, is still around to support your no-cost warranty replacement as you do almost have a "new" car now!
 

pjtait

Member
Oct 12, 2014
6
6
United States
My mid-2015 85D had an internal battery pack sensor failure a year ago. It took 6 (six!) replacements to finally get a pack that worked properly. I ended up with this, according to the invoice: "BATTERY,90L,CAT1,REMAN,SX(1102982-01-A)". (The main display and the app now says I have a 90D).

Is there an up-to-date table of battery packs so I can see which pack version I have? There used to be a "battery wiki" on these forums, but the links to it no longer work.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,249
6,017
Merced, CA
My 2013 P85 with 30k miles had a sudden battery failure and Tesla has agreed to replace the HV battery under warranty. My service advisor mentioned that it would likely be a refurbished battery. That didn't set well with me and I asked why can't they just replace it with a new one. No response. Is it because it's a older model? Is a refurbished HV battery reliable or comparable to new one? Mind you that I have had the MCU and drive Unit recently replaced as well. After this I'm essentially getting a new car I suppose. Any thoughts are appreciated.

There are no new 85 batteries left.
 

sorka

Well-Known Member
Feb 28, 2015
8,249
6,017
Merced, CA
"Same age"??? Batteries wear by mileage, not age. A 30,000 mile car should have very little wear on the battery.

They degrade based on time and use, not just use. A brand new battery sitting on a shelf will eventually lose capacity. The warmer it is while stored, the faster it will degrade.
 
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