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HW2.5 capabilities

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by verygreen, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    No traces of a redundant radar, sorry. Both CAN-signals go from the same radar unit to ECU
     
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  2. bjornb

    bjornb Member

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    I also find the e-fuse part interesting. It seems like they are now making the power supply for critical components more robust which is wise when the car is supposed to become autonomous at some point.
     
  3. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    Is this a replacement to the Bosch or in addition to the Bosch?
     
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  4. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    #104 sandpiper, Aug 22, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2017
    This makes a whole lot of sense. I've said repeatedly that L5 can't be done without redundancy. You need redundancy to protect human life in a factory. Why would it be different in a car?

    With that said, I don't believe this will be enough. I believe that L5 will require redundant sensors that function technically differently. So, you will need 2 separate means of reliably seeing and protecting a crossing pedestrian. This could be visual + LIDAR. The current radar can't do it and I doubt it ever will.

    I also think you will need vehicle to vehicle communications, vehicle to road infrastructure communications, high resolution GPS, high resolution maps and a process for certifying auto-drive legal roads.
     
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  5. bjornb

    bjornb Member

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    It is a replacement.
     
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  6. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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  7. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    Wow, so based on the added redundancy, it appears from the cheap seats AP 2.0 is DOA for FSD......
     
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  8. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    Well that would be interesting, wouldn't it. Especially since the FSD-disclaimer has always said that it is dependent on SOFTWARE validation. Software. Not hardware upgrades. I'm going to quote @AnxietyRanger again: We shall see.
     
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  9. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    Agreed, but Tesla seems to be able to spin things anyway they need to and nobody calls them to the carpet on it. They could simply make up some crap about the software failed validation due to lack of redundancy / failover and leave out the entire part of the need for hardware to support said software functionality required by regulators.
     
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  10. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    @lunitiks

    I think you together with @verygreen are perhaps the most valuable members on TMC.

    Just saying.
     
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  11. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    Thanks a bunch. I miss wk057
     
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  12. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    I'd like to double like @AnxietyRanger , Bravo @lunitiks and @verygreen You guys are just awesome and incredibly valuable, even if you are always seemingly delivering bad news to the legacy AP2 users ;)
     
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  13. evster

    evster Member

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    Thanks for in depth information, really intersting and I'm looking forward to hear more about what these changes will mean in the real world. Wonder if they will push different software to these HW2.5 cars just like there is different packages for AP1 and AP2.0 cars?

    Since new cars produced now seems to have the APH3-code, can we confirm that the 21 October date for the wire diagram should be 21 August instead? Which leads to the next question about the other hardware changes that you guys reported regarding new headlights, new MCU, etc.
    Keeping my fingers crossed that the reported 21 October changes all will be changed for august productions :)
     
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  14. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    We simply don't know yet, we strongly suspect however. Just my $0.02
     
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  15. Duke-U

    Duke-U Member

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    ... like me :oops:

    Great insights, thanks guys. Good to have some background knowledge waiting for what's to come for those who paid for FSD.
    Still not unhappy having ordered, they will have to come up with something FSD at some point in time, hopefully not a reembursment.
     
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  16. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    Agreed, they'd have to give me a brand new car with free SC for life, the only reason I bought when i did was the promise of FSD with current hardware and the sham of a video and the notion that SC for life was going away in Dec 2016. :mad:
     
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  17. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

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    There's no different packages for AP1 and AP2.0 cars, it's all 100% the same even for pre-AP cars, just some bits are activated if capabilities for it are detected.

    Similarly ape (the HW2.x computer) code has a bunch of checks in the form of "am I on hw2.5? if so, am I on model 3? don't ask mcu to init the backup camera. Not model 3? Call this other script to init backup camera".
     
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  18. verygreen

    verygreen Curious member

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    No MCU refresh? I guess that's good (we'll keep being mostly first class citizens on the MCU front) and bad(sluggish performance persists).
     
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  19. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    Related to redundancy ... I saw this article that states that Continental radar identifies pedestrians from quite a difference. I don't know why but I was only thinking the cameras did this. Not sure if this is a form of redundancy and whether Bosch did/didnot have this.

    VW with clear vision – Continental radar sensor protects pedestrians
    VW uses Continental radar for pedestrian detection in new Tiguan

     
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  20. ab26

    ab26 Member

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    My thoughts -

    1. Redundancy shouldn't affect day to day performance of the car. It's only critical when something fails. This means that AP2.0 user can get the same performance of FSD, but they have a higher chance of failure rate.

    2. Hoping its actually August 21st. Oct 21st 2017 is a Saturday so don't know if that actually makes sense. (Oct 16th 2016 was a Monday as well).
     

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