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HW2.5 capabilities

Discussion in 'Autonomous Vehicles' started by verygreen, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    I would think that redundancy would be useful in day to day if weather or lighting (day/night/glare/sunset/headlight limits) was included. As an example in rain or fog radar may be able to detect pedestrians (etc) when cameras could not (at least at their normal precision). Similarly with the different lighting conditions.

    I would think in general that multiple types of sensors would add to the confidence level of identifying all types of objects. Just a thought.

    Aside: in my post above I meant '...quite a distance...' and not '...quite a difference...'
     
  2. buttershrimp

    buttershrimp Supporting Member

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    When they promised FSD in AP2 would be twice as safe as the average driver, Tesla will simply claim in the response to the lawsuit that they used a sample of octogenarians who were simultaneously attempting to facetime with their grandchildren
     
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  3. _jal_

    _jal_ Member

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    I still think that there's a lot of hand waving going on with fsd and eap for that matter. Redundancy is another matter (it's easy enough to count One Camera), but as far as computing power needed for eap and fsd it reall is an unknown. As in it isn't known because no one has done it before. And frankly, I have no confidence in the position that Tesla has some magic FSD solution running somewhere that could clue them into the scale of processing power needed. There's just no evidence of anything sophisticated enough to warrant a belief of NN magic happening. We haven't seen it in EAP nor have we seen any new videos.

    I think it's possible they're doing basic dsp edge finding and curve fitting for lane lines and then some algorithmic process for staying in the lane. I think they will eventually start using NN processing for control, but it's not now.

    The history of computer science is full of radically wrong estimations of capabilities and capacities - both to the good and bad. The AI of 2001 still isn't around (a relief for those of us in deep space hibernation) and on the other hand a computer mastered Go much sooner than anticipated. Nevertheless, the data from you guys is fascinating!
     
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  4. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    Well now we can. Tesla has corrected it :)
     
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  5. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

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    What? The date in the parts list?
     
  6. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    [​IMG]
     
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  7. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    So clearly, whatever the changes Tesla referred to as "2.1" in the Electrek statement began building August 21st - the redundant wiring etc.

    Interesting to see if this matches what we think is in the Model 3 or if this is some intermediary step on the road to a still larger overhaul (e.g. does the interior camera wait for an interior redesign etc.).
     
  8. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    Me too. The new e-fuse doesn't replace any of the fuse boxes in the car, but adds to them.

    According to the schematics, e-fuse protects 10 critical wires: Power for (from?) the DC-DC converter, power for the frunk fuse box, the cabin fuse box, primary power steering, redundant power steering, air suspension compressor, condenser fan right, condenser fan left, ABS motor and iBooster (power braking).

    In short: Probably all critical driving systems.

    So why. WhhhyyyyyYYy this e-fuse. Isn't Model S already the safest car in the world?

    Well, there's also logic interface on this thing :). The logic interface controls the e-fuse box itself ("ENABLE E-fuse" etc.) and seems to communicate with both the DC-DC-converter and the BMS ("ENABLE HV Batt").

    So I guess a more appropriate name for the e-fuse would be Remote Kill Switch :)
     
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  9. AnxietyRanger

    AnxietyRanger Well-Known Member

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    Now we know why Elon is talking about Robot Killers... ;)
     
  10. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    Wouldn't have thought they needed to go to this extent for a remote kill switch, unless they are worried about a rogue AP AI trying to take over the world. In which case an eFuse connected to the CAN probably won't help much ;)

    Guessing they have found a scenario where the car doesn't (cannot?) completely shut down after an accident, or maybe this is a step towards ditching the 12V battery?
     
  11. BigD0g

    BigD0g Member

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    I don't think they will kill the 12v battery until the S/X Refresh in 2020 or so, but clearly AP2 is now on very very shaky ground. The fact that they are switching radars to a better one with more find grain course plots and better able to detect pedestrians, a more redundant wiring harness and of course the dual gpu parker box. We may not be at a spine transplant, but we are certainly getting close to a nose job and a tummy tuck.
     
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  12. sandpiper

    sandpiper Active Member

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    I'm quite certain that they're using NNs to determine the relative position of the car in the lane. Given the number of highly successful examples of people doing that, I can't imagine it being otherwise.

    But I am equally concerned that they're perhaps getting ahead of themselves. I don't believe FSD is going to be nearly as easy as people think. I still say we're looking at 20 years for widespread availability of true FSD. And it will require infrastructure upgrades.

    I expect that we're going to see a slow introduction of FSD lanes, FSD highways/roads, as they slowly standardize what's required to safely implement FSD. And I think we're a long way from allowing FSD in mixed urban road/ pedestrian traffic.

    All of which does not mean that L2,L3,L4 aren't going to be useful and enhance safety, well ahead of true L5 FSD. It's all good stuff. But we need to be realistic.
     
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  13. ev-now

    ev-now Member

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    Agree, as does Amazon who holds (or at least filed) some infrastructure related patents last year - presumably to remove drivers from their final delivery leg - in case the drones don't work out for large items ;)

    I think less than 20 years tough. As Gates is credited with, "most people overestimate the change that will occur in the next two years and underestimate the change that will occur in the next ten".

    We'll see.
     
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  14. ab26

    ab26 Member

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    On a slightly different note, do we have any indication whether the 75 cars now get 85 BTX8 batteries in the US?
     
  15. croman

    croman Active Member

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    No, see the 3 threads on this.
     
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  16. Alketi

    Alketi Member

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    All of these changes are consistent with L5 and ride-sharing and align with what Tesla told Electrek.

    A remote kill switch is for a ride-sharing passenger to intervene in the event of an emergency.

    Wiring and other redundancies are to meet the "redundancy" requirement of L5, which is a nebulous requirement that's not yet fully fleshed-out.

    The only question in my mind is whether they're also putting an internal camera in the S/X to monitor the driver and cabin.
     
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  17. xborg

    xborg Member

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    Well, I wonder if it'll take another year for Tesla to code autopilot using new radar.
     
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  18. lunitiks

    lunitiks ˭ ˭ ʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽʽ ʭ ʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼʼ ˭ ˭

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    The new wiring diagram mentions nothing of the sort
     
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  19. Jonas_man

    Jonas_man Member

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    Woulndt be the first time tesla doesnt deliver in AP.
    For AP1 tesla said the car would navigate in your private driveway to park itself.
    We still dont have that.
     
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  20. rxlawdude

    rxlawdude Member

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    So why would the M3, with AP2.5, not "intialize the rearview camera?" Or does this imply that initialization for that model is not required.

    One possible interpretation if the above quote is correct is that Tesla won't be using the rear view camera on the M3 for AP functions. I hope this isn't the case!
     
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