Other than the fact that HW2 cameras are in black and white, are there any additional differences such as resolution or field of view? We are considering the recently announced MCU1 -> 2 upgrade since it looks like it'll finally enable full sentry mode. We really want that since we had a hit and run in the parking lot that would've most likely had been caught had we had full sentry mode. Repairs ended up costing $5k+. We just want to verify that the HW2 cameras will be able to catch license plates as well as the HW2.5+. Having color is not nearly as important has having enough resolution and FOV to catch the offenders.
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HW2 vs HW2.5+ camera differences?
- Thread starter hoisinboi
- Start date
ekendahl
Member
I don't know the details for other differences between the HW2 and 2/5 cameras. I speculated in another thread that they might replace the cameras for us, 2.0 owners - if only to reduce the number of configurations they need to code for. I have no idea if that will actually happen.
That said I wouldn't be surprised id a b&w camera could capture more detail than the color one!
I once interviewed for a medical device company developing a CMOS camera sensor for minimally invasive surgery. The sensor had to be tiny to fit inside the bendable tube. For that reason they used a b&w sensor - otherwise, they would have 1/3 the resolution because a color sensor has separate sensors for R(ed), G(reen) and B(lue) while b&w sensors are all the same (grayscale). Their trick to get color was to run the sensor at a really high refresh rate (180hz?) and shine synchronized Red, Green, and Blue lasers. That way they, in effect, got a 60Hz high-resolution camera. Pretty nifty!
That said I wouldn't be surprised id a b&w camera could capture more detail than the color one!
I once interviewed for a medical device company developing a CMOS camera sensor for minimally invasive surgery. The sensor had to be tiny to fit inside the bendable tube. For that reason they used a b&w sensor - otherwise, they would have 1/3 the resolution because a color sensor has separate sensors for R(ed), G(reen) and B(lue) while b&w sensors are all the same (grayscale). Their trick to get color was to run the sensor at a really high refresh rate (180hz?) and shine synchronized Red, Green, and Blue lasers. That way they, in effect, got a 60Hz high-resolution camera. Pretty nifty!
I read on TMC somewhere previously (probably that very long 140+ page MCU1 to MCU2 upgrade thread) that the cameras between AP 2.0 and AP 2.5 / AP 3 vehicles are the same sensors. It's just that the AP 2.0 cars had a different set of filters (black-white-red) and AP 2.5+ added an additional filter for green (or was it blue?).
Based on this, I assume that the resolution and field of view between the cameras are the same. Looks like we AP 2.0 owners will have to wait till "Late March" before some of us start getting MCU2 + HW3 computers installed and Sentry Mode & Dashcam activated.
At that point, we'll know for sure if we have b/w recordings or the semi-colored recordings from all the current AP2.5+ cars.
Based on this, I assume that the resolution and field of view between the cameras are the same. Looks like we AP 2.0 owners will have to wait till "Late March" before some of us start getting MCU2 + HW3 computers installed and Sentry Mode & Dashcam activated.
At that point, we'll know for sure if we have b/w recordings or the semi-colored recordings from all the current AP2.5+ cars.
ekendahl
Member
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like these 2.0 cams should be able to do the trick in capturing license plates. We'll have to wait and see. It's a great time to be alive! My wife wanted me to drop nearly $1k on 4-ch blackvue because she was that pissed. Anyways, I hope we'll get our answer soon.
The camera sensors are the same between 2.0 and 2.5, but the 2.0 cameras have RCCC filters and the 2.5 cameras have RCCB filters. The rear camera is the same on both cars - RGB
Otherwise, the 2.5 has a Continental radar with what I understand to be slightly better range than the Bosch radar on AP1/2 cars.
Those are the primary differences in sensors. Otherwise there are some wiring differences for the power steering rack and a few other minor changes that don't matter much.
Otherwise, the 2.5 has a Continental radar with what I understand to be slightly better range than the Bosch radar on AP1/2 cars.
Those are the primary differences in sensors. Otherwise there are some wiring differences for the power steering rack and a few other minor changes that don't matter much.
@kdday, I agree with your summary, but there are some extra differences:
The Conti radar is a 2 beam device (near + far) whereas the Bosch was a 1 beam device. Conti has 2 connectors too, so different wiring. Afaik the Conti is way better at using radar signals that bounce underneath the car in front of you = it can see the car driving in front.
The wiring differences for the power steering rack are there because of redundancy. Redundancy is required for self driving vehicles. The steering rack itself and the wiring are different.
All in all the wiring harness is quite different on a HW2 vehicle. That makes upgrading to the newer FSD computer quite challenging....
I still have my doubts about upgrading the HW2s. They only get a new FSD computer and a connector set.
That means Tesla will have to support 2 different hardware types in their FSD-software.....
The Conti radar is a 2 beam device (near + far) whereas the Bosch was a 1 beam device. Conti has 2 connectors too, so different wiring. Afaik the Conti is way better at using radar signals that bounce underneath the car in front of you = it can see the car driving in front.
The wiring differences for the power steering rack are there because of redundancy. Redundancy is required for self driving vehicles. The steering rack itself and the wiring are different.
All in all the wiring harness is quite different on a HW2 vehicle. That makes upgrading to the newer FSD computer quite challenging....
I still have my doubts about upgrading the HW2s. They only get a new FSD computer and a connector set.
That means Tesla will have to support 2 different hardware types in their FSD-software.....
zanary
Active Member
I don't know if the FSD Computer upgrade from 2.0 is challenging. Tesla has been doing it here in the US lately. Many reports of it on TMC. This is only to replace the AP2 computer behind the glovebox with FSD Computer. Some have even had the $2500 Infotainment Upgrade done at the same time. Reports are also on TMC for owners who have had this done.
Note: Neither the FSD Computer Upgrade not the $2500 Infotainment Upgrade option include new radars or cameras as you've indicated. It's just the FSD Computer or the MCU/IC if you choose to the $2500 Infotainment Upgrade.
It is my understanding that the AP2 cars will not have redundant steering upgrade. If that is the case, they will not have the steering upgraded which may be a requirement in order to meet the government requirements as a must have for FSD. So what happens if this is the case? I hope I’m wrong.
AP2 cars were sold as being FSD capable.
AP2 cars were sold as being FSD capable.
zanary
Active Member
Worry about that when and if the true Level 5 of FSD happens and the government has rules as to what safety features are required for Level 5 FSD.
But that being said, I'm going to assume it's like the pedistraian warning sound. New vehicle will need to conform to the new laws, while older vehicles don't need to (ie, grandfathered in as an exception).
I bought my hw2.0 car in 2016. It’s now 2020 and FSD isn’t measurably closer than it was then. Let’s not kid ourselves that redundant steering power is going to prevent us from getting level 4/5. There’s about a billion other reasons we’re likely not to see level 4/5 before that one tops the list.
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