HW3.0 for EAP Owners?

[camthehombre]

I know that it was said that HW3 would only be for FSD but I'm wondering if people who paid for EAP will get it as well down the road? Hear me out:
The reason I wonder this is because people who have the upgrade are saying things about lane changes being more confident as well as taking exits. There are part of the EAP package.
Also is we paid $5k for the EAP upgrade, it's not like I'm asking for the features of FSD or even visualization, just the hardware as we did pay extra
I am fine if we don't get it, I understand completely as it was never part of the deal. Just a thought I had. I'd love to be able to request this even at an extra cost if possible for the improvement I mentioned above, plus better sentry mode/dashcam footage. I don't much care to pay $4,000 for an upgrade, but I might be willing to pay $1,000 or so.
Thoughts?

 

[spesler]

It will never happen, but I tend to agree with your argument.

 

[camthehombre]

It will never happen, but I tend to agree with your argument.

I don't expect it to happen, but if it did it would be after everyone who has FSD paid for gets the upgrade.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

We have AP2, AP2.5 and AP3 and they all drive about the same. The only difference so far is that the AP3 car with FSD has the extra visualizations.

 

[SMAlset]

I paid $2K (FSD was $3K regularly) during the March 2019 sale for half-off features. Everyone at that time with EAP or no AP/EAP had the opportunity to do so. It was April 2019 when all cars were starting to be shipped with the new hardware. Suppose there is a chance after they have fully updated everyone’s car that ordered FSD with HW2.5 pre-installed that if there are enough left over units in supply, that they might offer those outlier owners the opportunity to buy then.

However since they knew how many “orders” they had for FSD/HW3 updates and factoring in some excess for repairs to be available down the road, I would think they ordered a volume quantity of boards that made the best financial sense for the company. I have no idea if the replacement boards have a different configuration than the current cars’ boards due to part/design changes. If it’s the exact same board as current cars then a better chance. I still think it could be tied to ordering FSD though.

 

[Knightshade]

The reason I wonder this is because people who have the upgrade are saying things about lane changes being more confident as well as taking exits.

People also say there's no difference at all.

People also say HW3 is worse at some things.


People say stuff all the time. Thusfar there's no objective evidence I've seen of who if any of them are correct though.


Up to this point the only official word has been Elons mentions that HW3 is just running the same code as 2.5 in emulation (and as such actually runs it slightly WORSE).... He also explicitly said HW3 wasn't needed for just EAP functions... and there's been no functional difference at all (just additional visualizations shown on HW3- all of which relate to things EAP wouldn't care about like stop signs and lights)



Now-all that said- we know they're doing a fundamental re-write of the AP code. It's possible once that's done that HW3 COULD make a difference on EAP cars.

Or it's possible it won't.

It's even possible EAP is "finished" like AP1 was- and only HW3/FSD cars get the new code at all.

Until we know that though it'd be pretty pointless to do HW3 swaps on non-FSD cars (and may continue to be after depending on the answer to that)

 

[camthehombre]

People also say there's no difference at all.

People also say HW3 is worse at some things.


People say stuff all the time. Thusfar there's no objective evidence I've seen of who if any of them are correct though.


Up to this point the only official word has been Elons mentions that HW3 is just running the same code as 2.5 in emulation (and as such actually runs it slightly WORSE).... and there's been no functional difference at all (just additional visualizations shown on HW3- all of which relate to things EAP wouldn't care about like stop signs and lights)

Those are good points. There is a lot of hearsay on both sides. One thing that is for sure is the Sentry/Dash quality. Night and day difference. My personal opinion is that 2.0/2.5 will probably get left behind on updates like MCU1 has. I'd be willing to pay to stay updated with that too.

 

[camthehombre]

We have AP2, AP2.5 and AP3 and they all drive about the same. The only difference so far is that the AP3 car with FSD has the extra visualizations.

Interesting. Everyone on my local Tesla FB group says HW3 is like driving on rails and the ping-ponging is gone. Do you see the difference in camera quality on Sentry mode or dashcam? From what I've seen the difference is massive.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Interesting. Everyone on my local Tesla FB group says HW3 is like driving on rails and the ping-ponging is gone. Do you see the difference in camera quality on Sentry mode or dashcam? From what I've seen the difference is massive.

Differences with dash cam/sentry would be related to MCU1/MCU2, not AP3/FSD computer. Hmm, on second thought, I do remember they used different compression algorithms originally, depending on AP hardware, but I think they are both on the same currently.

Our AP2 car has MCU1 and no real sentry mode.
Our AP2.5 car also has MCU1 and has 3 camera sentry mode, IIRC.
Our AP3 car has MCU2 with 4 camera sentry mode.

I haven't noticed any difference in the dash cam video quality. I'll try to take a look and see if there's any difference between the AP2.5 and AP3 cars.

I don't think we've noticed any ping-ponging with 2020.4.1 firmware on AP2/AP2.5. I'll double-check with the AP2.5 driver since I don't often drive that car.

 

[camthehombre]

I am not sure about the camera setup. I’ve just heard that with HW3 it isn’t compressed or something like that? There was a recent post on reddit of a guy showing the difference.

Got HW3 FSD Computer Retrofit today! (413xxx vin) Look at all that uncompressed image quality!! Wow! : TeslaLounge

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I am not sure about the camera setup. I’ve just heard that with HW3 it isn’t compressed or something like that? There was a recent post on reddit of a guy showing the difference.

Got HW3 FSD Computer Retrofit today! (413xxx vin) Look at all that uncompressed image quality!! Wow! : TeslaLounge

We'll try to take the AP2.5 and AP3 cars out this weekend and see if we notice any differences.

 

[jroydog]

This just comes off like you want Tesla to give you a brand new computer for free (or highly discounted) because you already paid $5K for a version 2.5 computer. If you buy an iPad and a new one comes out, should Apple just give you a new one because you already bought one? Tesla is a business not a charity. They've determined that a custom, AI purpose-built computer should be priced at $5K because they developed all the tech in house instead of using off the shelf components made by another vendor. I don't consider that unreasonable.

 

[camthehombre]

This just comes off like you want Tesla to give you a brand new computer for free (or highly discounted) because you already paid $5K for a version 2.5 computer. If you buy an iPad and a new one comes out, should Apple just give you a new one because you already bought one? Tesla is a business not a charity. They've determined that a custom, AI purpose-built computer should be priced at $5K because they developed all the tech in house instead of using off the shelf components made by another vendor. I don't consider that unreasonable.

Well that's not how I meant it. People who paid for FSD are getting an upgrade when HW2.5 was supposed to be able to handle it and then HW3 came out they get the upgrade. I also said I'd be willing to pay for it, but my main question is whether or not it would even be an option.
Not looking for a handout at all, just curious if it would even be something that could happen in the future, even if it was a paid option.

 

[jjrandorin]

Those are good points. There is a lot of hearsay on both sides. One thing that is for sure is the Sentry/Dash quality. Night and day difference. My personal opinion is that 2.0/2.5 will probably get left behind on updates like MCU1 has. I'd be willing to pay to stay updated with that too.

But you can pay to stay updated with that.

 

[Knightshade]

Well that's not how I meant it. People who paid for FSD are getting an upgrade when HW2.5 was supposed to be able to handle it and then HW3 came out they get the upgrade. I also said I'd be willing to pay for it, but my main question is whether or not it would even be an option.
Not looking for a handout at all, just curious if it would even be something that could happen in the future, even if it was a paid option.

It's a paid option for you right now if you want it.

Called FSD.

 

[jjrandorin]

Well that's not how I meant it. People who paid for FSD are getting an upgrade when HW2.5 was supposed to be able to handle it and then HW3 came out they get the upgrade. I also said I'd be willing to pay for it, but my main question is whether or not it would even be an option.
Not looking for a handout at all, just curious if it would even be something that could happen in the future, even if it was a paid option.

Sure its an option.. pay for FSD, like many of us who had EAP did. Its a paid upgrade that costs 3k for you, if you have EAP. You have already established that you know that you shouldnt get it "included" or "free", now, you are just trying to haggle over the price.

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

I don't expect it to happen, but if it did it would be after everyone who has FSD paid for gets the upgrade.

... and NOT for free.

It would make financial sense for Tesla to offer HW3 upgrades to HW2 and HW2.5 owners after they've finished doing the (free) upgrades for FSD licensees. However, Tesla isn't really good about seizing these incremental opportunities, and I'm also not sure how many HW2.5 owners would pay (say) $1500 for a HW3 upgrade, and the upgrade from HW2 is likely to get a lot more expensive than that.

 

[mojoe]

I have EAP it would be nice if they offered the $2k upgrade to FSD again someday, I know we'd never get HW3 for free but $2k was reasonable.

 

[camthehombre]

Sure its an option.. pay for FSD, like many of us who had EAP did. Its a paid upgrade that costs 3k for you, if you have EAP. You have already established that you know that you shouldnt get it "included" or "free", now, you are just trying to haggle over the price.

Just looking for options. People who have SR cars can pay for Rear Heated seats instead of the SR+ package.

and FSD is $4k for me, not $3k. Again, happy to pay, just looking for more options. Is that wrong? I’m not looking for the full FSD suite, just better performance down the road of things I’ve paid for now.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I know that it was said that HW3 would only be for FSD but I'm wondering if people who paid for EAP will get it as well down the road? Hear me out:
The reason I wonder this is because people who have the upgrade are saying things about lane changes being more confident as well as taking exits. There are part of the EAP package.
Also is we paid $5k for the EAP upgrade, it's not like I'm asking for the features of FSD or even visualization, just the hardware as we did pay extra
I am fine if we don't get it, I understand completely as it was never part of the deal. Just a thought I had. I'd love to be able to request this even at an extra cost if possible for the improvement I mentioned above, plus better sentry mode/dashcam footage. I don't much care to pay $4,000 for an upgrade, but I might be willing to pay $1,000 or so.
Thoughts?

I’ve had cars with both EAP and FSD on HW2.5 so I feel qualified here.

Both felt equally confident regarding lane changes however following 40.2019 had the passing lane camping issue as well as excessive ping ponging.

Would HW3 on an EAP car fix this? No telling but until Tesla gets off their ass to fix that (unless it was deliberate which wouldn’t surprise me) this will remain one of the larger usability differences besides visualizations for the time being.