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HW3 to HW4 Upgrade

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Information I've seen says HW3 to HW4 upgrade would be free if you have FSD, implying that if your car did not have FSD, the hardware upgrade would be chargeable.

Is there any confirmation of this in any documents on the Tesla UK website.

The UK generic order agreement says hardware is NOT updated after an order is placed - apparently contradicting what I've seen posted elsewhere.

I know that HW4 is many months away, and possibly a year or two before it is available in UK. I also know that many people will argue that there will be no benefit from FSD for a decade or two, and that these people will argue that HW4 is pointless anyway.
He already confirmed that there is no HW4 upgrade whether you pay for it or not even if you bought the FSD package. Promises of Robotaxi and you car being an appreciating asset were complete BS. They will stop developing software updates for HW3 in a few months and call it quits.
 
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We don't actually know HW4 is "better". If its a consolidation of the 3 forward facing cameras down to 2 higher resoluition but have to cover the missing camera at a different focal length, it might not make that much difference in performance.

I guess there's talk of the radar, but I'm not sure thats a given, if it is, thats the one thing I'd be worried about.

The type approval docs all seem to focus on the rear view mirror area, so the changes do all seem to be in that area.
 
We don't actually know HW4 is "better". If its a consolidation of the 3 forward facing cameras down to 2 higher resoluition but have to cover the missing camera at a different focal length, it might not make that much difference in performance.

I guess there's talk of the radar, but I'm not sure thats a given, if it is, thats the one thing I'd be worried about.

The type approval docs all seem to focus on the rear view mirror area, so the changes do all seem to be in that area.
HW4 adds cameras at several other places, including - notably - ones further forward, integrated into the headlights. This is presumably to resolve issues with blind turns (e.g. T junctions) that the current cameras just can’t resolve with where they are - the B pillar cameras are behind the drivers head.

This all appears to be a concession that HW3 and below will do a version of self driving but not the one promised etc. Just lol if anyone still thinks the current cars will be Robotaxis.

HW4 will be the dominant platform by the time FSD Beta is close to being available in the UK, making current cars essentially depreciated on day one, in my opinion.
 
HW4 adds cameras at several other places, including - notably - ones further forward, integrated into the headlights. This is presumably to resolve issues with blind turns (e.g. T junctions) that the current cameras just can’t resolve with where they are - the B pillar cameras are behind the drivers head.

This all appears to be a concession that HW3 and below will do a version of self driving but not the one promised etc. Just lol if anyone still thinks the current cars will be Robotaxis.

HW4 will be the dominant platform by the time FSD Beta is close to being available in the UK, making current cars essentially depreciated on day one, in my opinion.
Yes, I’ve seen the green bloke has revealed some details recently. I’m still struggling to work out the 11? cameras positions, I thought we had 8 plus a cabin camera, seems 4 are being added (2 in front and rear bumpers), so presumably we’re losing the b pillar forward facing side cameras?
 
Yes, I’ve seen the green bloke has revealed some details recently. I’m still struggling to work out the 11? cameras positions, I thought we had 8 plus a cabin camera, seems 4 are being added (2 in front and rear bumpers), so presumably we’re losing the b pillar forward facing side cameras?

Most likely speculation, imho, is that the b-pillar cameras are moved to somewhere on the front fenders, as there are now four cameras labeled 'FF' (front fender?). With the main forward cameras reduced from three to two, that leaves three new cameras. There are three cameras labelled 'SVC', 'F', 'R' and 'L' (front, right and left). Green's speculation was that these are bumper cams as Tesla's parts catalogue says SVC in the bumper cover description, but there's alternative speculation that the SVC refers to 'surround-view camera', a terminology used by Mobileye and others for the 360 degree birds-eye parking camera system. That's typically four cameras, so why only three added here - I guess because the existing backup camera meets the needs for the rear SVC. If this is true, and seems more likely to me, it'd be one in the front bumper, but the side ones more likely in the mirrors like many other vehicles with a 360 birds eye view, or even using the existing b-pillar location. Might all give USS-less parking a fighting chance!
 
Most likely speculation, imho, is that the b-pillar cameras are moved to somewhere on the front fenders, as there are now four cameras labeled 'FF' (front fender?). With the main forward cameras reduced from three to two, that leaves three new cameras. There are three cameras labelled 'SVC', 'F', 'R' and 'L' (front, right and left). Green's speculation was that these are bumper cams as Tesla's parts catalogue says SVC in the bumper cover description, but there's alternative speculation that the SVC refers to 'surround-view camera', a terminology used by Mobileye and others for the 360 degree birds-eye parking camera system. That's typically four cameras, so why only three added here - I guess because the existing backup camera meets the needs for the rear SVC. If this is true, and seems more likely to me, it'd be one in the front bumper, but the side ones more likely in the mirrors like many other vehicles with a 360 birds eye view, or even using the existing b-pillar location. Might all give USS-less parking a fighting chance!
I don't get all the talk of removing the B-pillar cameras when there have been documents from china leaked showing new heating elements for B-pillar cameras to reduce condensation. Unless that's really a small interim solution I don't really see the point of doing it if they were going to remove them anyway.
 
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I don't get all the talk of removing the B-pillar cameras when there have been documents from china leaked showing new heating elements for B-pillar cameras to reduce condensation. Unless that's really a small interim solution I don't really see the point of doing it if they were going to remove them anyway.

Well, in my speculation above there can still be b-pillar cameras, but now they are the parking cameras for a 360 surround-view. So driving forward/side cameras moved to the front fenders for a better view out of junctions, and the new side 'SVCs' occupying the b-pillar locations. The leaked info about the b-pillar camera changes specifically mentioned the shape of the opening changing from the angled elongated ellipse (which is a result of them looking forwards) to being more circular. That would be consistent with them now looking straight out sideways/down rather than angled forwards as you'd expect if these are now side parking cameras. But this is speculation upon speculation, so take with a pinch of salt.

b-pillar.png
 
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I belive that the pillar cameras will stay but the direction they are pointing will be adjusted more to a wide view. The front fender cameras will be moved up toward the front bumber and we get a new camera in the center front bumper and the dditional 2 cameras added to the rear fenders . So we end uo with 3 in the front and 3 in the back which will also cover all the dead spots from the USS and the two pillar will complete the 360 view . Then you still have the two in the windshield which gives the depth of view .

I can't see how HW4 won't be much better. There eill be 4x the resolution, More cameras giving us more coverage ( the ability for a real 360 view) and then we will have the HD radar which will allow the car to actuall see farther foreward and see through rain instead of getting a message that there is no visability.
 
Life is a bit simpler for Tesla now…. UK bound 3/Y aren’t built in the US. So Tesla could conceivably build US cars with HW4 and the rest of the world without for the longer term. In the UK legislation will never be on par with the US so why do people think we will even get HW4? FSD is US centric currently. I’m baffled why anyone in the UK is worried about HW4 when it’s absolutely pointless.
 
Life is a bit simpler for Tesla now…. UK bound 3/Y aren’t built in the US. So Tesla could conceivably build US cars with HW4 and the rest of the world without for the longer term. In the UK legislation will never be on par with the US so why do people think we will even get HW4? FSD is US centric currently. I’m baffled why anyone in the UK is worried about HW4 when it’s absolutely pointless.
I would lay out the issue differently.
On EU/UK roads, vision based FSD is not accurate enough to ever become approved/compliant. So only HW4 (future proof) vehicles would have a chance to become FSD eligible in the distant future where it will hit our shores.
 
HW4 (future proof)

Like all the surplus / redundant processing power that guaranteed HW3 was self driving capable and also future proof?

I really do not get why all the development that has made FSD beta 'so good' in the US hasn't found its way onto UK cars. OK, so no real self driving, but at least deliver to UK owners the 'proven' technology that HW3 must be capable of - or whatever capability we supposedly had before updates downgraded cars by removing Radar. And deliver working self parking and wipers etc.

In any case, with self driving a la Tesla being pretty much off la carte in Europe, why won't Tesla just dump remaining HW3 there? (since the regulators have conveniently let them off the hook from having to get it working).

Forget self driving..... My car was sold with radar that has now been removed / turned off in a failed attempt to stop Phantom Braking. HW4 is so obviously effectively a response to a list of bug fixes that HW3 and earlier have had from the start (eg fogging b cams)

Effectively the UK narrative just changed from 'your car can do fsd when the regulators say ok' to 'if the regulators say OK, we might try to get a cut down apology for FSD working in your country'.

Then what about retraining the NN? That long tail, march of nines etc must depend on some fine nuances. Like text on signs. And kids on wheels (roller skates, boards etc). I seriously doubt you just put the same NN to work with the new hardware (higher res cams and radar).

No evidence of existing or potential future proofing. Just wishful thinking.
 
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