That doesn't matter. We paid for the hardware. Tesla got our money. I just want to get what I paid for. I heard now also rumours that they will honour for the upgrade for HW 2.0 only to first owners! We bought a car that was Hardware capable for FSD. We opted out for the software package. If we want to sell the car the next owner cannot upgrade? That would mean that we cannot sell the same car we bought I.e, hardware ready for FSD. That is a huge diminished value.
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HW3
- Thread starter Chancellor32
- Start date
That doesn't matter. We paid for the hardware. Tesla got our money. I just want to get what I paid for. I heard now also rumours that they will honour for the upgrade for HW 2.0 only to first owners! We bought a car that was Hardware capable for FSD. We opted out for the software package. If we want to sell the car the next owner cannot upgrade? That would mean that we cannot sell the same car we bought I.e, hardware ready for FSD. That is a huge diminished value.
Ok. I think I see where you’re coming from now. So I guess my question then is this: Where or when was it ever said, even from the beginning, that the car you purchased was 100% going to be capable of FSD without any additional hardware upgrades? Because from what I understand, FSD was never promised as attached to any specific model or year build of Tesla in the beginning. Sure, it was always part of the company’s vision, but if you bought your car on a future vision assuming that meant they’d give you free HW upgrades, that’s on you. FSD wasn’t even made official in any way until they started selling the FSD upgrade separately. And, as we’ve already discussed above, it is a combination of SW and HW, not one or the other, per Elon Musk.
M109Rider
Active Member
So you didn’t buy full self driving.
Elon said hardware upgrades would be offered to those that bought full self driving only.
So you want hardware for free and feel entitled to it.
I’m confused.
Just saying you’re entitled to it, doesn’t mean you are.
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All Tesla Cars Being Produced Now Have Full Self-Driving Hardware
"We are excited to announce that, as of today, all Tesla vehicles produced in our factory – including Model 3 – will have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver. "
Yeah I remember this. But as I said, where does it say you’re getting all future HW upgrades such as the HW3 chip, that wasn’t even announced at that time, for free? If you bought your car on or after that date, you got all the hardware called out in that article. I guess you could argue it also meant you’d be getting FSD software free too, but I’ll leave that to the lawyers. Either way, if you expect that anyone who didn’t pay for the FSD option is getting HW3 for free, I think you’re in for a rude awakening.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Probably you will get it for "free" with the purchase of FSD. I doubt they're ever going to charge different amounts for upgrades on cars with HW3 vs. HW2.5.
I doubt we're going to see any software differentiation between HW3 and HW2.5 for years though.
Andrej Karpathy said six months ago that Tesla had already developed neural nets that run well on HW3 but require too much computational power for the earlier HW.
“The reason this is important is that it is a common finding in the industry and that we see this as well is that as you make the networks bigger by adding more neurons, the accuracy of all their predictions increases with the added capacity. So, in other words, we are currently at a place where we've trained large neural networks data work very well, but we are not able to deploy them to the fleet due to computational constraints. So all of this will change with an acceleration of the hardware and it's a massive step improvement in the compute capability and the team is incredibly excited to get these networks out there.” Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA) Q3 2018 Earnings Conference Call Transcript -- The Motley Fool
That together with Elon’s prediction that Tesla would be feature complete for FSD by the end of 2019 suggests to me the initial differentiation will come sooner than you predict.
Not until or unless someone actually buys FSD. The capability wont matter unless someone pays for it.
Here you go. Thanks for that.
This is what I mean. If it now appears that my car isn't hardware ready fo FSD they should make it so.
If you don't get your car by the end of this month, it's 95% likely that your delivery will be pushed to after 15 May 2019 because all production between now and 10 May 2019 will be for EU and Asia because Tesla wants to deliver Q2 production in Q2 and these destinations have long transit times. Therefore in each quarter, production starts with the furthest away destinations and ends with California. Check out this chart that shows how most deliveries happen in the last month of the quarter:
This would be a good thing because if you get your car by the end of this month, it won't be HW3. However, if your delivery is pushed to after 15 May, it will be HW3. If you were from California, your car would be delivered by the end of this month. However, because you are from Texas, I think you might have just missed the window for this quarter.
By the way, the low number of AWD VINs acquired is related to the fact that Tesla had lots of unsold 2018 Model 3 LR AWD in stock. If you look at the list here, on 19 Feb 2019, the number of Model 3s in Tesla's inventory was as follows:
All of these are 2018 models. The 10th character in the VIN is J for 2018. Tesla will clear the inventory by the end of this month. That's why Elon was upset with stores because he told them to clear the inventory but they couldn't. Also, that's why they came up with the $3,000 price drop for Model 3s on 28 Feb 2019 and then the 3% increase on 20 March 2019. Everything is designed to clear the inventory by the end of this month so they can move on to HW3.
- 255 Long-Range
- 654 Performance
- 3,482 Mid-Range
- 6,453 Long-Range AWD
There is a danger zone between 1-7 April 2019 buyers should watch out for. If for some reason there was no car to deliver to you but then suddenly Tesla says they can deliver between 1-7 April 2019, it means somebody refused that car when they tried to deliver it in the last week of March and this car definitely won't have HW3. In addition, a few days after you take delivery Tesla will announce that all cars exiting the production line have HW3. This announcement will most likely happen just after the 7 days refund window is already closed.
This could leave some buyers feeling tricked because Tesla is making only HW3 cars since 23 Mar 2019 but those cars are for EU/Asia but they won't tell you that. Instead, they will keep quiet and deliver an HW2.5 car even between 1-7 April 2019. Then they will keep quiet until the refund window is closed and then they will announce HW3 with a blog post. Ideally, Tesla should find a better way to implement hardware changes without upsetting the most recent buyers.
I recommend reading the opening message here and my long message here to understand why switching production from US to EU/Asia plays a role.
Great analysis. Thanks for this and all of the other predections you've shared.
I am not understanding your argument, and I dont think anyone at tesla (or any other regulatory body or court) would either. They said " your car has the hardware for FSD" then they determined that it doesnt. You cant make the argument that you purchased the car for that feature, because you havent bought it. If you DID buy the feature you would get the hardware.
Saying "I want this hardware in my car but will not buy the feature that requires it" doesnt even sound right when you type it out or read it.
Its kind of like someone asking "what exactly is pornography". We dont really need a definition, we "know it when we see it". Similarly "I want this hardware for this feature I havent bought" makes zero sense when you type it out. Now, if you HAD bought the feature, and then told you were not getting the hardware, THEN you would have a complaint.
You are saying "You told me my computer is capable of using a word processor. I dont use word processors but now I found out it cant. I even found out that IF I buy a word processor, you will upgrade my computer for free. I am not going to buy the word processor but I want you to upgrade my computer anyway for "reasons" even though I dont plan on using it".
That wasn't what you asked. You asked:
And I responded with the Tesla blog post that stated ALL cars were shipping with the hardware for FSD in 2016. No hardware upgrades were needed for FSD.
You got me there! I guess I misspoke. But I stand by my original intention, which is to state that it’s completely unrealistic and unreasonable that Tesla should provide free HW3 retrofits to someone who didn’t pay for the FSD option and has no intention of doing so.
How is that relevant to
People that paid for the FSD UPGRADE will be lucky to get the HW3.
If they sold you a car with a the top speed is 250km/h and they later say it only goes 200 km/h but we have an update. However, you only get the update if you need to go that fast.. That doesn't make sense either. You bought something and paid money for it. So you are entitled to get it.
Further up the thread this conversation was started by someone saying they were promised FSD from the get-go and thus should get HW3 free even without buying any FSD option. Overall I disagreed and stated it was never promised, even in the beginning.
This user just pointed out a press release which sort of worded it that way back in October 2016, and I was saying despite that, free HW3 upgrades for those who DIDN’T buy FSD is definitely not going to happen. Whether or not HW3 upgrades happen for those who did buy FSD is a totally different topic that still appears up for debate.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It IS hardware ready- that's why they made the AP computer easy to swap- so that the HW is ready to accept whatever level of computer is needed to make FSD work. No charge for it even if you are an FSD owner.
If you haven't paid for FSD then it's weird you think you should get something you didn't pay for.
If you did pay for FSD then you are getting what you paid for- including the HW3 swap.
I heard a rumor the kid who played Urkel died from eat poprocks and coke!
meanwhile there's been 0 factual info to that regard, in fact the CEO of the company has repeatedly said exactly the opposite of that.
What he's actually said was everyone with a HW2.x car who pays for FSD gets HW3 upgrade free
Would'n it be better to wait until you buy FSD that way if HW3 is replaced by HW4 you would receive the latest and more powerful chip ?
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