HW4 leak: 1 fewer camera

[JHCCAZ]

How do you feel about Tesla following Mobileye's footsteps yet again?

They originally followed Mobileye's footsteps because the hardware setup was inherited from the Mobileye-designed AP1. No surprise there and no one at Tesla has ever claimed otherwise.

Regarding HW4, it's surely been in internal development longer than the appearance of the comparable Mobileye product announcements, so I don't see how you can accuse Tesla of copying. All AV system designers face similar issues, and will come up with solutions that are comparable in some ways. To reduce this to accusations of "copying", as if Tesla engineers couldn't think of such things themselves, is just internet fodder.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Isn't 2x 5k > 3x 720 ?

If your objective was a simple panorama then sure, but they want a focal length that gave an Image that was zoomed in for objects in the distance, you might only be taking 1/4 to 1/9 of the image (1:2 to 1/3 horizontally and vertically) to do that, which would be 500 - 1200.

 

[EVNow]

How do you feel about Tesla following Mobileye's footsteps yet again?

Convergent evolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Padelford]

I’m curious about the new radar. My vehicle has the old Bosch radar, and I expected Tesla to upgrade it to the Continental radar in the newer cars, it’s a significantly better radar than the Bosch. Will they retrofit the new radar to the older vehicles? The limited packaging pictures I’ve seen suggest it’s about the same size as the older radars.

 

[powertoold]

Convergent evolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How do you follow in the footsteps of someone who's behind you?

 

[CharleyBC]

How do you follow in the footsteps of someone who's behind you?

Walk backward.

 

[Bladerskb]

Regarding HW4, it's surely been in internal development longer than the appearance of the comparable Mobileye product announcements, so I don't see how you can accuse Tesla of copying.

I don't think that is particularly true, besides if we were to use your thesis and review the history of Mobileye and their 2 front camera setup.

In Sept 2020 they announced supervision with the 11 cameras (2 front camera setup) and 8 MP.

China’s Geely to Feature Mobileye SuperVision for Scalable ADAS - EE Times Asia

China's Geely Auto Group will, in late 2021, deplo Mobileye’s “full stack,” 360-degree camera-only ADAS solution to power Level 2+ electric vehicles...

www.eetasia.com

But they has been talking even far back as Jan 2020 and even earlier about their new 2 front camera setup (7 camera plus 4 parking cameras).

https://s21.q4cdn.com/600692695/files/doc_presentations/2020/1/Mobileye-CES-2020-presentation.pdf

Its quite weird to assume that Tesla who has used alot of things from Mobileye, would not look to Mobileye again for inspiration or for straight copy.

Its not a coincidence, especially when Mobileye has a patent that could apply to binocular/dual cameras.
Are you telling me that Tesla didn't do their due diligence?

Even if you claim they are just converging to the logical end-point. It still showcases Mobileye as being the leader as they have been doing this for several years now.

Convergent evolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Funny, If this was the other way around, you would be telling me how Mobileye copied Tesla. Yet when its mobileye having the patent plus the tech for several years already, it clearly means nothing?

Heck weren't you the one saying that Mobileye copied Tesla to get their full tech on thousands of cars because Tesla did it first? (Even though mobileye had laid out in the past that it was their plan..)

Why pick and choose which logic you will use?

 

[EVNow]

Funny, If this was the other way around, you would be telling me how Mobileye copied Tesla. Yet when its mobileye having the patent plus the tech for several years already, it clearly means nothing?

Nah ... I've better things to do in life than go to unrelated forums and sh*t post. Thats just you.

BTW, how is the GM Ultra-Cruise coming along ? Are you working on that ?

 

[MTOman]

Since the new camera suite is only going to use two cameras instead of three is there any chance they'll add an interior camera to models not equipped with one using the existing third camera feed? I have a 2017 MX with HW3 but without an interior cam which affects how AP detects inattentiveness.

 

[lascavarian]

Heaters in the B-pillar cameras are definitely needed. The B-pillar cameras do suffer from condensation buildup in certain weather conditions.

I noticed this condition. Humidity was building up in my garage at certain time. I guess rain water related. Water on car and floor wet. Garage was slightly warmer above outside temps also.

Driving out into much colder air at certain times resulted in ice crystals/frost on the inside of the b pillar glass where cabin air movement is restricted.

Now I try to keep the garage floor dryer of rain water dripping off the car. Broom pooled water out of garage. Also added a garage dehumidifier to lower overall humidity. Cracking a car window may also help avoid cabin humidity buildup a bit.

This may be an interesting first principles engineering challenge to completely resolve.

 

[AS9.9.]

Heated B-pillar sound great! I can't count the times It was blocked because of condensation. That being said, is Tesla on the hook for retrofitting B-pillars for people who have purchased FSD for free since FSD isn't very useable when the cameras are blocked? I remember reading somewhere Elon said current hardware is fully capable, but from my experience of just using FSD around my neighborhood, it can barely make a decent turn (and that's on a clear day).

I am wondering if the sky-high price for FSD includes future upgrades, because currently it doesn't seem worth it.

 

[clydeiii]

They have in the past (I was upgraded from HW2.5 to HW3 for free) but who knows this time around.

 

[cbdream99]

I think I view that as bad news. I still don’t see how the current system has a good enough view to turn perpendicular onto an uncontrolled road. I feel like that means the band aids continue. Right now it’s pretty scary.

This is the scariest part of FSDb, perhaps the system thinks this is just another UPLT, Whenever FSDb stopped in the median trying to make LT into my neighborhood street, one time it moves while another vehicle is passing my sight, another vehicle coming at 45mph, it makes it through the gap but I will never make such a move, another time while lots of traffic is coming, it inches forward and starts moving, I have to intervene as it looks like it ignores not seeing the oncoming traffic.

 

[TresLA]

Will these guys ever stop copying Mobileye?

But i wonder if this setup will still clash with Mobileye's trifocal camera patent aswell, like the previous setup they copied.

Mobileye's Multi-camera / Trifocal Camera patent
US20150103159A1 - Forward-facing multi-imaging system for navigating a vehicle - Google Patents

Mobileye's previous 3 front camera setup

Mobileye's new 8MP 2 front camera setup

Mobileye previous 8 camera setup

IMAGE

A side note: interesting timing mentioned in the first video of highway handsfree in 2016 and city streets, country roads, lane changes “in a small number of years”. Is this timeline considered achieved? Is it at least as publicly available as being able to purchase a Tesla w AP/NoA/FSDb? Or is this still debatable?

 

[Twiglett]

I wonder if the "long" camera is the cause of the odd traffic light behavior I've seen?
It has a longer but narrower focus and I think you can see that when the car is approaching a traffic light off in the distance.
On a straight road its mostly ok, apart from braking way too late.
But when the traffic light is round a curve, but still visible, the car seems to miss it and end up with heavy braking.
Of course it may just be my car or my area. I often seem to report issues that others have not seen.

 

[scottf200]

A higher resolution camera (which has been rumoured for a while) could replace 2 of the forward facing cameras which are at different focal lengths - ie it’s just a digital zoom. So it makes perfect sense, easier to integrate the images as they’re already integrated, but no real increase in resolution, at least on the one image.

They originally followed Mobileye's footsteps because the hardware setup was inherited from the Mobileye-designed AP1. No surprise there and no one at Tesla has ever claimed otherwise.

Regarding HW4, it's surely been in internal development longer than the appearance of the comparable Mobileye product announcements, so I don't see how you can accuse Tesla of copying. All AV system designers face similar issues, and will come up with solutions that are comparable in some ways. To reduce this to accusations of "copying", as if Tesla engineers couldn't think of such things themselves, is just internet fodder.

FYI, comparison to Mobileye + Zeekr

Camera POV - Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr

Via: Mobileye CES talk (see bottom of this post) A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr. - Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar. - "7 long range cameras...

teslamotorsclub.com

Via: Mobileye CES talk
A pretty interesting graphic of the camera placement and degrees of visibility (FOV) of Mobileyes SuperVision requirements on their partner Zeekr.

- Of note: front camera (2 vs 3), Side Front Camera on mirror vs B-pillar.
- "7 long range cameras at 8 MP each" 47:55 seconds into video.
- Side cameras: 100 degree vs Tesla at 80 or 60 degree.
- Parking: 3 cameras at 195 degrees 'down low'. (obvious benefit is when things moved in those areas after car is parked and shut off)

Aside: Zeekr with Mobileye SuperVision and a Tesla with HW3 FSD do the same routes in different cities.
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/zeekr-automotive-coming-to-america

Tesla:

Undocumented – TeslaTap​

teslatap.com

 

[aaronfhd]

4d Radar

 

[Mr. Michael]

Wait until someone tells Musk that they can drive perfectly well with one eye. He will be removing all cameras but one and put that money in his pocket too.

 

[GoVols!]

Does the new MYLR without USS have the new 5mp cameras? I feel like I read this somewhere but just spoke with my SA from local Tesla center who just called to ask if I was ready to order and said he hasn’t heard of any new cameras as of yet.

 

[powertoold]

Does the new MYLR without USS have the new 5mp cameras? I feel like I read this somewhere but just spoke with my SA from local Tesla center who just called to ask if I was ready to order and said he hasn’t heard of any new cameras as of yet.

Doubtful, otherwise, the dashcam footage would probably look different / more detailed?