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HW4 sensor suite and hi-res camera updates?

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How do they deal with the slightly different camera positions on different models now? Train the perception neural nets with data from all four or are there actually four different versions?
Last I heard (they keep tight lipped about these things) there's a calibration process and then while driving the software skews and stitches single frames together and then feeds them into the analysis pipeline for labeling and planning.
 
I thought you were saying that more reliability is required for L4 than L3.
No, the person I was responding to was responding to a post that Tesla was calling it L2 and then said Tesla could call it whatever they wanted. Which is not true. They of course can't call it L3 or higher. So I was talking about Tesla being L2 and nowhere near L3 or chasing the .999s of L3 yet.
 
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I also understood that Cybertruck would be the first appearance of HW4. Also, current HW3 vehicles would not upgrade to HW4.

He didn't mention if newly built S/X/3/Y/Semi vehicles would switch to HW4, but I'm guessing they will do this shortly after Cybertruck hits the road. You want to keep the active fleet as high-tech as possible I'd think.
I ask because I plan to upgrade my S to a new one this year, but if HW4 is really coming I want to wait for that. Elon said on the call that Cybertruck might start production mid-summer. Electrek is still speculating that the new hardware will be announced “any day now.” I figured if an announcement is coming, it might happen at Tesla Investor Day on March 1.

I know that you can’t predict the timing of Tesla hardware changes, but HW4 would be a big deal, and there’s no upgrade path, so it’s worth waiting for.
 
OT: No iPhone EVER had a plastic screen. Windows phones did have a plastic screen and Jobs was adamant that no iPhone would. Even made a deal with Corning who had just started marketing Gorilla Glass that at the time no one wanted to use, to use in the iPhone.
Ah, you're right. The original was going to have a plastic screen but Jobs found it scratched so demanded glass before release. i remember reading about scratched screens but that must have been from testers, not customers
 
Sure seems that the $15,000 paid to get full self driving would cover the cost of an upgrade. And it looks like the upgrade will be needed to have actual full self driving, which is what they paid for. If cars are not upgraded I could see a very large class action suit in the works.
Hope you are right. I got my Model Y last year at the higher price. And Camera only. Hate for the car and it's Tech be End Of Life in barely less than a year.
 
You're absolutely correct, it's not difficult. Where you're running into trouble is what a court will rule on. Courts work on reason - what is reasonable. Your car is working fine, and has value which you've received. The court will not order Tesla to buy back a car that is working reasonably well. It's why we have Lemon Laws in many states in the US, which can force a company to buy back a car that isn't working reasonably well.

Here's an example:

Car - $100,000
Tires Upgrade (optional) - $2,000
Seats (7-row optional) - $5,000
FSD Package (optional) - $15,000

If the tires weren't delivered, nor the seats, you would know this at delivery and could refuse the delivery, or have a signed document indicating, as you said, there was some parts shortage and you'll get those items at some point in the future. If they never show up, a court would very likely grant you a refund of $7,000 for the tires and seats, plus possible interest on the time.

The same for FSD. If you argue to a court that FSD was not delivered timely, the court would likely grant you a refund of $15,000 for the FSD Package, plus possible interest on the time.

If you could prove to the court that the only reason you purchased a Tesla was for autonomous driving, and that might be difficult to prove, the court would likely grant you a refund on the FSD Package, and possibly the difference between the price of the car ($100,000) and the FMV (fair market value) at the time of the case (let's say KBB shows your car worth $80,000 at the time of court), meaning you'd be granted an additional $20,000. You could then sell your car to be made whole.

Think reasonable.
Well in my case I got FSD for $9k. And I did specifically buy a Tesla because of its smarts, but was told it's coming (FSD, smart summon, parking assist, etc). I have no other reason to have overpaid on this car I bought outright.

If a Model Y with actual FSD and those other smart features, comes out, leaving mine without the features I not only paid for, but specifically made me decide to get this car for the long term (outright purchase in cash, with those options on the original order) then I'll claim damages equivalent to the difference of selling my used car at fair market value and the value of the new Model Y at that time.

So if my 2023 MYLR7-noUSS-FSDb is worth $50k CAD and the new 2024 MYLR7-FSD costs $100k CAD, I'll sue for that difference.

It's the least that can be done to put me in a car with the features I was promised, and paid for. If the judge wants to reduce it upon judgment, is obviously possible.
 
Well in my case I got FSD for $9k. And I did specifically buy a Tesla because of its smarts, but was told it's coming (FSD, smart summon, parking assist, etc). I have no other reason to have overpaid on this car I bought outright.

If a Model Y with actual FSD and those other smart features, comes out, leaving mine without the features I not only paid for, but specifically made me decide to get this car for the long term (outright purchase in cash, with those options on the original order) then I'll claim damages equivalent to the difference of selling my used car at fair market value and the value of the new Model Y at that time.

So if my 2023 MYLR7-noUSS-FSDb is worth $50k CAD and the new 2024 MYLR7-FSD costs $100k CAD, I'll sue for that difference.

It's the least that can be done to put me in a car with the features I was promised, and paid for. If the judge wants to reduce it upon judgment, is obviously possible.
But FSD is still going to work with 2023 Model Y. Am I missing something?
 
But FSD is still going to work with 2023 Model Y. Am I missing something?
It depends on what you mean by “work.”

Musk said that, without fsd, Tesla is worthless. Forum posters have agreed with this statement, claiming that the functioning of fsd will be immensely valuable. But I think they are misinterpreting the claim. It is not that fsd will just provide a large value for the company, it is that non-functional fsd will be an immense liability that could cause bankruptcy.

With a sympathetic judiciary, a class action could be filed not just on behalf of the purchasers of fsd, but all Tesla owners of vehicles purchased after 2016. Their claim could be that the hardware to enable the infamous 2016 video is not present in their car, the advertising was false, thus they should receive a refund for the portion of the vehicle value not present because the vehicle is not a self driving car.

Back to your question: Tesla will someday claim that fsd “works” on an early 2023 Tesla. It won’t be because it can drive you more safely than a human driver. It will be because, if they don’t make that claim, the liability will be too great.
 
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Let Me Google That.
:p
I've found that when someone on the forum says Musk said something, then he said it. He says a lot of things!

Except that is not what he said. In context “basically zero” could still mean trillions of dollars. Maybe 10x-100x more solving FSD.

Or whatever. Numbers picked arbitrarily. Obviously “basically zero” not the same as “Zero.”

All he was saying was that FSD would make them worth a lot more. And he said “basically zero” not “zero” - two very very different things (in context).

“It’s really the difference between Tesla being worth a lot of money or worth basically zero”.

So still a LOT of value with it not solved. Especially if no one else solves it!
 
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