TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Hybrid Model X competitors

Discussion in 'Model X' started by TEG, Feb 13, 2012.

  1. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    Area 51 / UK


    Funny you should say that, because here is a video of a V10 Toureg actually towing a 747 Jumbo ... amazing stuff !!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhk3VRtU5Dk
     
  2. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    BREAKING: Audi Confirms Plug-in Hybrid A4, Q7 e-tron Models

    It is apparently, as they say, on like donkey kong.
     
  3. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,193
    Location:
    Kongsberg, Norway
    Strange statement. I would think the interior space would shrink when they stuff the trunk full of batteries, generator, etc.
     
  4. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    #24 Johan, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    Thought is was time to kick some life in to this sleeping thread, with all the recent discussion about the possibility of a Model S AWD, and the fact that we now can say that it's very likely that Tesla will live on and prosper as a company and therefore the Model X will become reality (Falcon doors or not).

    So, my daily driver is a Mitsubishi i-MiEV. Great mini car for city use. Quick and agile. 16kWh battery, about 70 miles of real-world range without heavy HVAC use. Had it now for >1 year and had absolutely no issues. Just had it for it's first annual service at the Mitsubishi dealer and came to talk with the mechanic there. He knew all about Tesla, and was really in to EV's and hybrids as well. He gave me some info on the Outlander. In this thread you can see that the Mitsubishi Outlander (someone above said Highlander but that is wrong I think) was presented as a concept. Well, it's no concept now but going in to production and will soon start selling here in Norway. Now, Mitsubishi has been doing really well in the last years here with their ASX (a nice somewhat smaller SUV/CUV type car) and with the Outlander. AWD is really big here due to long and hard winters.

    It features two electric motors, one front and one back with no mechanical coupling between the two (first production car besides the Model X that I know of that has this). The motors are specified at 80 hp (59.5 watts) with 101 lb-ft (137 Nm) torque in the front and 80 hp (59.5 Watts) with 144 lb-ft (195 Nm) torque in the rear motor.

    The Outlander plug-in hybrid features a 12kWh battery and is said to have a fully electric range of 55 km (tested with the Japanese standard which overestimates in my experience) and a "target combined" MPG of 143, or the equivalent of 61 km/liter (we commonly count the other way around to say 0.164 liter/10 km) which is quite impressive. Now, this is with the ICE operating as a generator only ("Series Hybrid Mode"), the ICE is a 2.0 liter petrol engine. It also has a 3rd mode they call "Parallel hybrid mode" where the ICE provides most of the motive power and the electric motors just assist, this mode is apparently only for hig-speed driving, where the ICE operates at peak efficiency.

    It has CHAdeMO for DC charging (50kW max) and on-board AC charger is at only 2.7 kW according to my calculations (Mitsubishi says AC charging takes 4.5 hours to charge from 0-100% with the battery at 12kWh) which is good enough for over-night charging.

    The car also boasts an impressive cd of only 0.27 according to Mitsubishi.

    I think Mitsubishi is doing a lot of things right with this car and for me it would be a very interesting car if it wasn't for the fact that 1) I want to be 100% electric 2) Our tax system, and hence pricing, strongly favors fully BEV's over any form of ICE even hybrids. Still I think they will sell a lot of these in Norway.

    Check this article and especially the press release from Mitsubishi.
    Here is another good article from Motor Trend
     
  5. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,461
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    I agree I think this Outlander could be popular here too.

    However, everything I have read has the ICE at two litres.
     
  6. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    #26 Johan, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    Yes, I think you are right, but strangely enough on the press release included in the first link I submitted it said 1.0 liter engine, but on Mistubishi's own webpages it says 2.0 liter engine.

    Update: Ah, I see what I did there. In the press release there was mention of another car with a 1.0 liter engine (a super compact). I've changed the original post.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,120
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    #27 TEG, Nov 8, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
    Highlander is a Toyota SUV
    Outlander is a Mitsubishi SUV
    Some info about Toyota Highlander:
    Why my Toyota Highlander wants to plug in hybrid.... PHEV conversion SULEV - YouTube

    - - - Updated - - -

    Slightly apples-to-oranges comparison, but that Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD has had front and rear (not joined) electric motors for a while now.
    But it is not (currently) a PHEV, and the eMotors are small, so the gasoline engine comes on for nearly all highway driving.
    highlander-awd.jpg
     
  8. Zer0t

    Zer0t Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    I have a v10 touareg that I was going to sell to get the model s but don't think I could part with it. It gets in the low 20s highway, when not besting on it which is hard, and 18 city. It's not terrible but I am completely enthralled with EVs.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  9. Zer0t

    Zer0t Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    Location:
    Morris County, NJ
    #29 Zer0t, Nov 12, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
    The Touareg is geared very poorly and is a monster off the line but repeated quick shifting ruins it's continued acceleration. I've had mine tuned to a modest, believe its modest, 360 RWHP and 710 lb/ft of torque. Most importantly the software for the transmission shifting points remarkably better.

    The initial jump of the v10 is crazy. However, my wife had a Cayene TTS and it is 4.9 sec 0-60 which was amazing. So if the model X is 4.4 it will be scary fast.

    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/06/2008-volkswagen-touareg-v10-tdi-review/

    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,120
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Porsche Panamera Sport Turismo gets its driving debut
    porsche-panamera-sport-turismo-628.jpg
     
  11. mikevbf

    mikevbf Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    vermont
    Yes it has a reasonable size trunk but it's still a 4 passenger car. Without a third row it's more an AWD Model S competitor than a Model X competitor. I still think the Volvo XC60 crossover plug in hybrid wagon is the closest competition. At least it's a full 5 seater and will more than likely have good ground clearance which puts it somewhere between a competitor to the Model S and X. I wish we could get the diesel one in the US.

    2013 Volvo V60 Diesel Plug-In Hybrid Begins Production
     
  12. EchoDelta

    EchoDelta Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2012
    Messages:
    732
    Location:
    Seattle, Planet Earth
    I saw a Cayenne ad today that made me smile and think Tesla is #winning.

    See the text - low-end torque and range being the main sticking points, (besides the diesel 29mpg) and closes with "...to ensure the fueling station won't disrupt your visceral sensations".

    I saw it as good news, because the main points seem all directed to a model X (or any luxury-class-EV-SUV). Since when a suburban SUV needs to tout its "range"? (Last time I worried about the range of a ICE 4x4 at a trip's outset was somewhere near the Egypt-Libyan border). Also starting to attack the 'fueling'/'charging' as a detriment to the driving sensation. I saw it all as reactive.

    Screen Shot 2012-12-19 at 5.11.48 PM.png

    And as to the "clean diesel" logo, this came to mind:

    Screen Shot 2012-12-19 at 5.30.22 PM.png
     
  13. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    Hmm, I dunno. I don't see it as going at EVs. I mean nearly 800 miles on a tank of gas is something to talk about isn't it? I know in my Q5, a fillup shows 395 on the dash. I think I've seen 415 in the A6 once (before it learned how I drive heh).

    Back to the Cayenne, as mentioned, 800 miles on a tank is impressive, and I bet it'll do that on the base model. Personally, I'm hoping for a 120kwh Model X and more superchargers because the Model S range barely does it for me and an SUV (which is typically our long range vehicle) with something like 80% (was that the number?) of the range of the Model S is pretty much useless in this household.
     
  14. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,233
    26 gallon tank. That's gonna hurt to refill.
     
  15. Lyon

    Lyon 2012 S P85, 2016 X P90D

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,927
    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    Lol, while the regular unleaded I put in my Suburban isn't as expensive as diesel, it's makes up for it by having a 40 gallon tank. Needless to say, I'm REALLY looking forward to getting my Model S.
     
  16. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,461
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
  17. mikevbf

    mikevbf Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    vermont
  18. mikevbf

    mikevbf Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    721
    Location:
    vermont
    It seems to me the main advantage of the Model X over all the competition both now and the near future is the extra interior space and reliability gained by choosing not to have gas engine in addition to the electric. We already see that with the Model S. When the Model X comes out with its huge amounts of interior space without being a gas guzzler (or the electric equivalent), it will be like a sledge hammer driving the advantages of pure electric home. I can't wait!
     
  19. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2013
    Messages:
    1,181
    Location:
    Chicagoland ModelX S603

    Spied: Porsche Plugs-in the New Cayenne S Hybrid E

    http://www.carscoops.com/2014/03/spied-porsche-plugs-in-new-cayenne-s.html

    Porsche isn't the type of automaker that keeps new technologies limited to a single model series, so when it introduced the Panamera S Hybrid E PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle) last year, we instantaneously knew that the Cayenne would be next to adopt this powertrain.
    At a first glance, this Cayenne looked like just another lightly covered prototype for theupcoming mid-cycle facelift for the series, but then Porsche engineers connected a plug to the car and it became evident that it's the S Hybrid E version.Whereas it's a given that the Cayenne will share the same parallel, plug-in hybrid powertrain as the Panamera S Hybrid E, at this point, we don't know if Porsche will keep the same output levels.
    On the saloon, the system pairs a 316hp 3.0-liter V6 gasoline unit to a 94hp (95PS / 70 kW) electric motor and a 9.4 kWh lithium-ion battery that can be fully charged in 180 minutes via the Porsche Universal Charger (AC), and in just under 240 minutes through a conventional household electrical outlet. The system delivers a combined out of 410hp (416PS). With full use of the battery juice, it can return an average fuel consumption of 3.1 liters/100 km (75.8 US mpg).

    The plug-in hybrid Cayenne should be ready within the next year or so.

    By John Halas
    Photo Credits: CarPix for CarScoopS
    2016-Porsche-Cayenne-PHEV-02%u002525255B3%u002525255D.jpg
     

Share This Page