Hybrid taking up charger at Loon

[Driver Dave]

Saw a Volvo SUV Hybrid plug in taking up a charger all day at Loon Mountain. Looked up that it’s electric range is... 25 miles. Wow! (Sacarasm)

Isn’t this kind of a ridiculous basically a gas car taking up a charger all day to charge its 25 mile battery?

Luckily I was able to plug into one of the Tesla chargers they have there.

But I could imagine if they were all taken it would have been hard to not to leave a note “Dude. Electric car charging. Lose the gas engine. Then park here.”

Just seemed wrong...

 

[roblab]

Having driven electrics for a dozen years or so, I have to say that this is an eternal problem. People conveniently ignore signs for their convenience. IF law enforcement actually enforced this law, it would not happen, but what I see is usually a car parked at a charger that is one of the most convenient places in the lot, and the lot is fairly full, and most of the charging places are nearly empty.

I've never been totally blocked from charging. OK, OK, you have to get inventive sometimes.

 

[Driver Dave]

Well the question is should a plug in hybrid be allowed to take up a spot to charge their small battery at a charging station?

This guy was plugged in, all day, but only for a 25 mike battery.

Luckily he couldn’t use the Tesla chargers but I feel sorry for the Leaf that might have needed a real charge.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Well the question is should a plug in hybrid be allowed to take up a spot to charge their small battery at a charging station?

This guy was plugged in, all day, but only for a 25 mike battery.

Luckily he couldn’t use the Tesla chargers but I feel sorry for the Leaf that might have needed a real charge.

That it's a PHEV is irrelevant.

 

[Esme Es Mejor]

 

[Snow Drift]

Are you sure it was done charging?

Did you try to use the Supercharger down the road? Why use a Level 2 when a SC is available?

Having driven electrics for a dozen years or so, I have to say that this is an eternal problem. People conveniently ignore signs for their convenience. IF law enforcement actually enforced this law, it would not happen, but what I see is usually a car parked at a charger that is one of the most convenient places in the lot, and the lot is fairly full, and most of the charging places are nearly empty.

I've never been totally blocked from charging. OK, OK, you have to get inventive sometimes.

It’s a PHEV, it can park there to charge...

 

[tga]

That it's a PHEV is irrelevant.

Really? At the risk of restarting that old debate again, that PHEV has a backup get-home plan. A non-Tesla BEV doesn't (the Tesla backup is the SC down the road).

Irrespective of that, camping out all day on the only J1772 when your battery is full is pretty high on the d-bag scale. Some people just suck. Charge, then move your lazy fat ass.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Really? At the risk of restarting that old debate again, that PHEV has a backup get-home plan. A non-Tesla BEV doesn't (the Tesla backup is the SC down the road).

Doesn't matter. It's not a BEV charger.

Irrespective of that, camping out all day on the only J1772 when your battery is full is pretty high on the d-bag scale.

_That_ was the problem. Doesn't matter whether it's a BEV or PHEV.

 

[Snow Drift]

I’ll add to the argument.

Is it rude for a Tesla to use a J1772 when Loon offers:

1) Destination Chargers
2) Superchargers about a mile down the road?

The other BEV have no other options to charge.

 

[Driver Dave]

Here is my take.

PHEV should not plug in at destination chargers. They have an engine. Let real electric cars use the chargers. And if they do really want to charge the 25 mile battery do so and then move on. Don’t sit there all day plugged in and really charging nothing. Which is what I saw at Loon.

Tesla cars should always use the Tesla chargers first. But it is fine to use the other chargers if Tesla ones are all taken but yes it is more polite to not do this if there is a supercharger down the road.

Loon is great in that they have destination chargers, which are always very convenient but they and everywhere else could use more of them. Superchargers are great but it is crazy convenient when you have a destination charger to hook up to.

Final note. Plug in hybrids stink. Just make a real electric.

 

[Big Earl]

Are you sure it was done charging?

Did you try to use the Supercharger down the road? Why use a Level 2 when a SC is available?


It’s a PHEV, it can park there to charge...

... until it's full, at which point it should be moved to allow someone else the opportunity to charge. Being a plug-in doesn't entitle anyone, Tesla, PHEV or otherwise, to monopolize the infrastructure indefinitely.

 

[Robotpedlr]

+1

I feel that a plug in of any kind has the same right to use the services. Just move on as soon as you can when you are done if possible. But it’s first come first serve like everything else.

 

[scaesare]

Are you sure it was done charging?

Did you try to use the Supercharger down the road? Why use a Level 2 when a SC is available?


It’s a PHEV, it can park there to charge...

And how long was it actually charging?

A quick lookup of one of their models shows a 10KWh battery and 3.5KW charger. I assume that's in the ballpark.

It's likely that, with buffer, that car was done charging in less than 2-3 hours. For the remaining time it was parked not charging.

Inconsiderate in a public charging spot.

 

[scaesare]

I’ll add to the argument.

Is it rude for a Tesla to use a J1772 when Loon offers:

1) Destination Chargers
2) Superchargers about a mile down the road?

The other BEV have no other options to charge.

As a straightforward answer:
-J1772's are provided for EV's
-A Tesla is an EV
-The J1772's are therefore provided for Teslas


Now, as a matter if "rudeness", I'd say it's hard to quantify that without knowing circumstances. If the destination charger (assumed an HPWC?) was unavailable, is the Tesla supposed to avoid charging if needs it just because somebody else might also need it?

What if their schedule was such that adding another 30 minutes of supercharging time after concluding the day there was going to make them late for an appointment or reservation? Are they supposed to avoid a provision they qualify for just because somebody else purchased a less capable vehicle?

As a matter of courtesy I avoid using chargers I don't need, and/or try to move when I have sufficient charge. I appreciate when others do likewise.

But I also feel its somewhat rude going the other way if there's an expectation from a Leaf or Volt owner that I'm not supposed to use a charging I might need, or am supposed to unduly inconvenience myself because I purchased a longer range vehicle.

 

[Driver Dave]

> And how long was it actually charging?

For a 25 mile range, probably let's call it an hour. It was there in the morning, there when I left in afternoon. So it spent the rest of the day preventing others from charging.

> -A Tesla is an EV

So the big question is:

Is a Plug In Hybrid an EV?

If it has a range of 75 or above, I would say ok, I don't like it, but at least it can go around town for the day on battery.

If it has a range below 50 and it is a huge SUV, I would say "Not at all, go away, you are fake EV"

It's a gas engine car carrying around a little EV engine, for very little reason beyond marketing really, or the ability to use EV charging spots by plugging in to "charge" (huge air quotes on that one)

Shame on you Volvo for creating such a stupid big SUV, with 25 mile range battery, going around taking up spots.

 

[Snow Drift]

I agree with everyone.

Every car, regardless of brand, should move once it is done charging. The charging location is not a parking spot, but for fueling only.

I suggest, for Loon, since it is a resort ski area, they should have Valet for charging. That way they can move you when done since it is hard to get back down to move your car (and cell service can be spotty, so you don't know your current charge level).

 

[scaesare]

So the big question is:

Is a Plug In Hybrid an EV?

We can probably debate this all we want.. but the reality is that if it has a plug for a charger (often J1772), then it's typically considered a car for which public charging is intended. The legal definitions for the "general" EV are along these lines.

Within that larger family, there's BEV's, and then everything else, in my opinion. PHEV's, hybrids (which is all the Volt's EREV designation boils down to), etc...

 

[Snow Drift]

I agree with @scaesare. If it has a plug port, it counts. BEV, PHEV/EREV, etc.

 

[Zaxxon]

Agreed. If it takes a J1772 then it's entitled to use public J1772 stations. And if it's done charging in 2 hours, then the owner should move it at or shortly after 2 hours.

I actually own a Volvo XC90 T8 which I think is what you saw. Takes around 3 hours to charge at its max 3.7ish kW. 2.5 hours to get to the point where it's tapered significantly.

The discussion over 'real' EV vs PHEV is silly (and believe me, I look forward to the day when I live in a 2 EV household rather than a 1 EV, 1 PHEV). PHEVs may be able to get home on ICE, but most PHEV owners that I've met really would rather use as little gasoline as possible. That's why they bought a PHEV, after all. Not everyone can afford a Model X.

 

[mikevbf]

Here is a handy item for people who want to be courteous EV owners:
Charging Hang Tag / Courtesy Notice Bundle
It allows other EV owners know if you are doing "Necessity Charging" or "Opportunity Charging" and leaves a space for your cell number. That is what I use in these cases.