TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Hyperloop

Discussion in 'Cars and Transportation' started by gg_got_a_tesla, Jul 12, 2012.

Tags:
  1. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,452
    Location:
    Germany
    @Norbert good points. Power usage can only be kept in sensible range when the acceleration pads have limited extend.

    OTOH Don't bring your laptop with (conventional) hard drive, or pacemaker near magnetic field created by 1m Amps. I once stood near a physics experiment with 1 Tesla magnetic field inside. The stray fields outside the superconducting coil made the keys in my pocket turn - in 5ft distance. :eek:
     
  2. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    I'm an MD, normally GP but currently doing a one year rotation at the hospital working as a neurologist. We do a lot of MRI. Our best machines have fields of 3 Tesla. Those machines will literally suck your keys out of your pocket! Needless to say you can't have an MRI if you have a pacemaker. And not if you have magnetic metal shrapnels or the like in your body.

    Here's an image of a woman with some keys on a chain close to an MRI scanner:

    . mri-img4.jpg
     
  3. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Now that the discussion took this turn, Elon might have to assure us it is laptop-compatble... :wink:

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm more expecting that the application of power will be continuous and therefore smaller, however that will be accomplished.

    - - - Updated - - -

    How much power do they consume?
     
  4. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,120
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    #44 TEG, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    20121912368379621_9.jpg

    god-particle-lead.jpg

    A "loop"?

    [​IMG]

    Looks like he got stuck in the loop: :tongue:

     
  5. Johan

    Johan Took a TSLA bear test. Came back negative.

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    6,674
    Location:
    Drammen, Norway
    #45 Johan, Nov 16, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2012
    I had to look it up and ask a radiologist. Basically they say it uses about 1-3 kWh per scan, depending on protocol and which area you're scanning. However, this is in a very short time period so the power is very large. I know for a fact they they are hooked up to a 400V/150A/3-phase system (let's say it draws 100Amps during scan, at 400V, 3 phase, that's 70kW). Almost like a SuperCharger :)

    One thing though is you don't ever (almost) shut an MRI machine off, since it takes a lot of time and energy to worm it up and to generate the magnetic field. If I go to the floor below the MRI's you can hear the humming 24 hours a day. Also, they wan't to use them as much as possible since they draw a lot of energy jus sitting idle. I think once they had to power it off for some reason and we couldn't use that machine until next day, so it takes quite some time to "worm up". Maybe someone here with better detailed knowledge than me can chime in?

    Here's an image about yearly power usage of a regular (1.5 Tesla) machine I found on Siemens site (note this takes in to account production of the machine and 10 years of usage):
    pof207art29_bild2_1467617.gif
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,461
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    So a magnetically propelled vehicle that goes very fast and can't crash?


    strasse.jpg



    (Except this one did, but only due to extreme negligence and stupidity)
     
  7. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I guess it means "faster than an airplane, but can't crash like an airplane can". (Only like a train.)
     
  8. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,452
    Location:
    Germany
    It's silly to say something moving can't crash. Like saying a ocean going ship is unsinkable.

    Definition of crash = two objects, at least one of them moveable, trying to occupy the same spot at the same time :smile:
     
  9. drinkerofkoolaid

    drinkerofkoolaid Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,337
    Location:
    F
    #49 drinkerofkoolaid, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
    Could it be something like the below picture?

    I'm visualizing this kind of image and assuming it runs on command based interface where you input your destination, press go, and it handles the rest. You pay when you leave, based on how far you went, or something like this. In theory if a computer is handling the driving, and assuming it is only on one track, it could be virtually impossible to crash. It kind of reminds me of rides at Universal Studios. Making it solar powered should be fairly straight forward. If he's calling it the hyper-loop, one would assume it is a circular rail "loop", that moves very fast "hyper". (Not to state the obvious) :cool: I'm imagining a mono-rail that utilizes something like the below picture. In theory, it would be impossible to crash. (Short of computer malfunction). If it operates on one track, and is automated, it could go as fast as they could make it capable of going safely.

    hyperloop.jpe
     
  10. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    So basically set up like an amusement park ride or a ski lift. Line up for groups of 5 or six to launch off for wild ride across the state.
     
  11. jcstp

    jcstp Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,627
    Location:
    Belgium
    #51 jcstp, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,120
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    #52 TEG, Nov 19, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012

    Attached Files:

  13. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,193
    Location:
    Kongsberg, Norway
    I have one idea about what it could be.

    If you have a row of towers, where there's a "railgun" at the top of each tower, you could be able to fire a capsule from tower to tower. The towers could be spaced at just the right distances, so that the capsule doesn't have time to veer off course before the next tower corrects the trajectory. And the faster the capsule goes, the more momentum, and the further apart the towers can be. This reduces land usage, so it could potentially be cheaper than rail in populated areas, and it should be able to achieve fairly high speeds.

    I'm not sure why it wouldn't be able to crash, though. :confused:
     
  14. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,120
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    #54 TEG, Nov 26, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
    ...Aircraft are discouraged from flying between the towers because a human filled projectile could be speeding past at supersonic speeds...
     
  15. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,193
    Location:
    Kongsberg, Norway
    Or another idea:

    If you remove the railguns, string a cable between the towers, use magnetic bearings to levitate the cable, and accelerate the cable to supersonic speeds, you get a system that is less prone to crash, can store energy in the cable, and pods could be able to magnetically attach to the cable to whizz from one station to the next. This should also allow towers to be further apart, at least at slower speeds near stations. As the cable itself has oodles of momentum, the centripetal force would want to push the cable into a perfect circle, so it might be necessary to built the towers in an approximately circular shape. Two loops of cable would be good, one in each direction.
     
  16. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    627
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Maybe that's why it would be called hyperLOOP.
     
  17. RDoc

    RDoc S85D

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,463
    Location:
    Boston North Shore
    To do that though, the cables would have to be moving at orbital speed, that is around mach 22, which would be tough in the atmosphere. There' a proposal for a space launch system like that: Lofstrom Loop
     
  18. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,193
    Location:
    Kongsberg, Norway
    No, you wouldn't need it to go that fast. Its purpose wouldn't be to launch anything into orbit, the purpose would merely be to move stuff from one place to the next at high speeds. It would basically be a suped-up gondola lift, with cables moving at supersonic speeds (or more realistically, high sub-sonic).
     
  19. keys

    keys Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2013
    Messages:
    72
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I'm still a skeptic about any existing alternative (vac tunnel, maglev, tube transport etc).. Main concern is amount of raw material and therewith costs. Also, you probably don't want to elevate the system since this causes major alignment issues (specifically at mach 1~2).

    The ground-based concorde is interesting. I think you could dig a long ditch in the ground and reinforce & cover it with some prefab sections. This way you could solve or at least alleviate concerns regarding the sonic boom. Next you would have this some sort of cart that 'floats' through the tunnel. Propulsion could be done using a supersonic electric turbine powered from the structure itself. The knowledge gathered from creating this propulsion system could also be used inside an electric supersonic plane (which would use similar turbines). Not sure about the way to store massive amounts of energy without batteries.
     
  20. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    617
    Location:
    Monterey
    If I were Elon, I would think seriously about leveraging the DOE loan pay off for Hyperloop right now. He's going to be the darling of Washington. Here's what I would recommend:

    Approach Obama Administration and offer to develop Hyperloop. Pledge 250 million if the government will match funds (he could easily sell some Tesla and Solar City shares to raise his portion right now). Hyperloop will need government assistance with Eminent Domain issues and approvals. 500m would be a great start. Elon can form a "think tank" and guide them in the direction he thinks is best. His star is as bright as it's ever been. Now is the time to leverage that star power
     

Share This Page