Hypothetical question. Re suspension of P and non P

[Webeevdrivers]

Max hitch weight for a model Y is 350 pounds. I’ve seen model Y’s with that much hitch weight on them and they don’t squat much. But here’s the question.

1. Which will squat more with the same 350 pounds hitch weight. The performance model or the non performance model.

2. Bonus question. How much lower does the performance model sit IF IT HAS STANDARD GEMINI 19 iINCH WHEELS...if at all.

3. Bonus to the bonus. Can you put standard Gemini’s on a performance model with no mods.

Thanks all.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Bump. Hoping someone can jump in with an answer.

 

[Exelion]

I can answer the two bonus questions.

the first is no difference. There may be a slight mm or two because of the performance’s rear tires are a bit wider but the difference in total ride height is negligible. The overall dimensions of the entire wheel plus tires are the same for all three different rim sizes. 19, 20, 21.

The second is they do fit. Plenty of threads and pictures of people with P’s running gemini’s, not to mention trade threads with people wanting to exchange Uberturbines for gemini’s.

 

[DayTrippin]

For first question - I guess 2 ways of looking at this, from max height down, or how much, if any travel is left with a load. I don't know what the spring rate is on the performance vs the Y and that would give you the info you seek. The performance might sag a little less BUT it already might have less travel to begin with so the amount above where the bump stops would begin might be the same.

Second question, shouldn't be a huge difference as wheel diameters are almost the same. I think the front on the MYP wheels would be the same as the Gemini for O.D. and the rear on the MYP would be a touch taller.

Final question - I believe there is no issue with that.

Something to ponder. Read this thread about load ratings. Of the factory MY wheels, the Gemini have the highest load ratings. It plots potential loading scenarios and their impact on the axle load. Some interesting reading about loading and if are going to tow with the MY.

18" Aero wheels and Model Y load limits

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I can answer the two bonus questions.

the first is no difference. There may be a slight mm or two because of the performance’s rear tires are a bit wider but the difference in total ride height is negligible. The overall dimensions of the entire wheel plus tires are the same for all three different rim sizes. 19, 20, 21.

The second is they do fit. Plenty of threads and pictures of people with P’s running gemini’s, not to mention trade threads with people wanting to exchange Uberturbines for gemini’s.

I appreciate you taking the time to answer those Exelion. Thank you from north of the border.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

For first question - I guess 2 ways of looking at this, from max height down, or how much, if any travel is left with a load. I don't know what the spring rate is on the performance vs the Y and that would give you the info you seek. The performance might sag a little less BUT it already might have less travel to begin with so the amount above where the bump stops would begin might be the same.

Second question, shouldn't be a huge difference as wheel diameters are almost the same. I think the front on the MYP wheels would be the same as the Gemini for O.D. and the rear on the MYP would be a touch taller.

Final question - I believe there is no issue with that.

Something to ponder. Read this thread about load ratings. Of the factory MY wheels, the Gemini have the highest load ratings. It plots potential loading scenarios and their impact on the axle load. Some interesting reading about loading and if are going to tow with the MY.

18" Aero wheels and Model Y load limits

Thank you daytrippin. That was an interesting thread.

Here is what’s going on. Please feel free to add any comments.

We currently have a model X on order but are having second thoughts on it as it is a bigger car than we want for a daily driver to replace our model 3. We intend to tow a trailer. Fully loaded the trailer we have chosen will be within the tolerances of the model Y. We have seen a model Y with 400 pounds of hitch weight on it (50 pounds more than spec allows for) and it didn’t squat that bad. Kinda like two big people in the back. Ours will be closer to 325 pounds. We also intend to load the frunk with some heavier denser items we carry with us so that will reload the front axle a bit. But I got to thinking, if the performance Y has a stiffer suspension and wouldn’t squat as much we would consider stepping up to it. As well it would have better brakes and better horsepower to weight ratio. We would however want the 19 Gemini’s for the taller sidewall. But because of hitch height it’s important that it not sit lower.

Thoughts or comments?

Thanks all.

 

[DayTrippin]

I was originally going with a MYP and I planned on towing. Long story short, my wife didn't like the ride quality that much on the MYP so we went with the MY LR instead. When I looked at the MYP, I was going to have to change a lot of things to make my wife happy (wheels, tires, suspension) and at the end of the day it wasn't worth it for us. And the MY LR so far has been awesome. I thought I might miss the power of the MYP but it doesn't seem much quicker except immediately from a stop.

If you were to go over the max hitch weight, I definitely would be leaning toward running the Geminis or something better to have a bigger buffer for load capacity. Something that helped me rearlize the MY LR would likely be fine is the BTG (bearded Tesla guy) doing a show on pulling a really large trailer with his 2020 MY LR with no issues. I don't think it will be lacking for power in most circumstances. One unique thing about the 3 and Y long range version is you can add acceleration boost for more punch if you decided you need it. While it doesn't get you all the way to the performance times, it more than splits the differnce.

So far I've only towed about 25 pounds and it was no issue with our MY LR. Almost forgot, the actual upgrade in the brakes is supposedly just wider rotors. Apparently the calipers are the same. So it might be worthwhile if you were in really hilly areas and towing at max capacity or more. That isn't our situation so the MY LR has turned out far better in so many ways than I thought it would. My wife is happy about the ride and noise so it is a win/win for us. Of course YMMV.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

I was originally going with a MYP and I planned on towing. Long story short, my wife didn't like the ride quality that much on the MYP so we went with the MY LR instead. When I looked at the MYP, I was going to have to change a lot of things to make my wife happy (wheels, tires, suspension) and at the end of the day it wasn't worth it for us. And the MY LR so far has been awesome. I thought I might miss the power of the MYP but it doesn't seem much quicker except immediately from a stop.

If you were to go over the max hitch weight, I definitely would be leaning toward running the Geminis or something better to have a bigger buffer for load capacity. Something that helped me rearlize the MY LR would likely be fine is the BTG (bearded Tesla guy) doing a show on pulling a really large trailer with his 2020 MY LR with no issues. I don't think it will be lacking for power in most circumstances. One unique thing about the 3 and Y long range version is you can add acceleration boost for more punch if you decided you need it. While it doesn't get you all the way to the performance times, it more than splits the differnce.

So far I've only towed about 25 pounds and it was no issue with our MY LR. Almost forgot, the actual upgrade in the brakes is supposedly just wider rotors. Apparently the calipers are the same. So it might be worthwhile if you were in really hilly areas and towing at max capacity or more. That isn't our situation so the MY LR has turned out far better in so many ways than I thought it would. My wife is happy about the ride and noise so it is a win/win for us. Of course YMMV.

Yah. Just read your post to my wife. I think we’ll stay with the AWD non performance. We won’t be exceeding the hitch weight. We will probably get the AB upgrade.

Thanks for your input. We are not ordering till September. We have some time to sort it all out.

 

[DayTrippin]

I would say order now, lock in the price, and move your delivery date. My wife originally wanted to wait until Sept, and already it would have cost us an extra 2k. That pays for the AB already.

If the price goes down from now, they give you the lower price. Given the lead times now, it might not get to you until Sept anyway. My understanding is you can move it up to 90 days (the delivery date).

 

[Noflash]

Max hitch weight for a model Y is 350 pounds. I’ve seen model Y’s with that much hitch weight on them and they don’t squat much. But here’s the question.

1. Which will squat more with the same 350 pounds hitch weight. The performance model or the non performance model.

2. Bonus question. How much lower does the performance model sit IF IT HAS STANDARD GEMINI 19 iINCH WHEELS...if at all.

3. Bonus to the bonus. Can you put standard Gemini’s on a performance model with no mods.

Thanks all.

Where are you seeing that 350lb limit? I just read the weight limit is 160lb.

Model Y Tow Package | Tesla Support

Learn more about the Model Y Tow Package.

www.tesla.com

"The hitch receiver is designed to support vertical loads up to 160 lbs. When carrying bicycles, skis or other items on the Model Y Hitch Rack, always check to ensure that the maximum weight is not exceeded."

 

[DayTrippin]

That amount is for when using the hitch for accessories, not towing. The MY is rated for 3500#. Normally the tongue weight is 10% of the towed amount. It also depends on the wheels.

On page 73 of the owners manual.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_y_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf

Trailer Towing
The maximum trailer weight (including all cargo and additional equipment), and the trailer tongue weight depend on the number of occupants in your vehicle and the tires being used. The maximum towing capacity and trailer tongue weight must never exceed the following:

Tire Size
# of Passengers
Maximum Towing Capacity
Maximum Tongue Weight

19", 20" and 21"
up to 3
3,500 lbs (1,588 kg)
350 lbs (159 kg)

4 or more
3,500 lbs (1,588 kg)
19" and 21"
20"
4 or more
2,300 lbs (1,043 kg)*
350 lbs (159 kg)
230 lbs (104 kg)*

 

[DayTrippin]

Hard to tell but the 20" wheels can't handle over 230 pounds tongue weight if a lot of load. Back to my point about the thread of load capacity for the wheels. The 20" Inductions are weak.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Hard to tell but the 20" wheels can't handle over 230 pounds tongue weight if a lot of load. Back to my point about the thread of load capacity for the wheels. The 20" Inductions are weak.

yep. For sure the 19 inch Gemini’s are part of the plan.

 

[DayTrippin]

There has been a lot of talk about going with an aftermarket hitch. From what I've been able to find, you can't enable the towing mode if you go aftermarket. Here are some of the changes they make with the MY hitch mode. From page 75 in the owners manual. The bolding is mine. Sorry about the formatting.

1. Trailer Mode
   Trailer Mode must always be active when towing a trailer. When you connect a trailer’s electrical connection while the vehicle is in Park, Model Y automatically engages Trailer Mode. When you disconnect the trailer’s electrical connection, Trailer Mode does not automatically disengage. To manually engage or disengage Trailer Mode, touch Controls > Driving > Trailer Mode on the touchscreen. One of the following indicators displays:

Some Autopilot features, as well as rear parking sensor functionality, may not be available when Trailer Mode is enabled. In addition, these features operate differently:
• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control increases the following distance from the vehicle in front of you.
• Side collision warnings are active but automatic steering interventions are disabled.
• The braking force provided by Automatic Emergency Braking (see Collision Avoidance Assist on page 114) may be limited. Therefore, stopping distance may increase.

WARNING: Do not rely on Model Y to detect the trailer and automatically engage Trailer Mode. Always check to ensure Trailer Mode is engaged before towing a trailer.

WARNING: Under no circumstances should you exit Trailer Mode when towing a trailer. Doing so can cause serious injury.

Trailer Brakes
When towing a loaded trailer that weighs more than 1650 lbs (750 kg), Tesla recommends that the trailer be equipped with its own brake system adequate for the weight of the trailer. Ensure compliance with local regulations. A brake controller must be purchased separately.
Follow these steps to connect a brake controller:

 

[Noflash]

That amount is for when using the hitch for accessories, not towing. The MY is rated for 3500#. Normally the tongue weight is 10% of the towed amount. It also depends on the wheels.

On page 73 of the owners manual.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_y_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf

Trailer Towing
The maximum trailer weight (including all cargo and additional equipment), and the trailer tongue weight depend on the number of occupants in your vehicle and the tires being used. The maximum towing capacity and trailer tongue weight must never exceed the following:
View attachment 678163 View attachment 678164
View attachment 678166
Tire Size
# of Passengers
Maximum Towing Capacity
Maximum Tongue Weight
View attachment 678168 View attachment 678165 View attachment 678167 View attachment 678170 View attachment 678169
19", 20" and 21"
up to 3
3,500 lbs (1,588 kg)
350 lbs (159 kg)
View attachment 678171
4 or more
3,500 lbs (1,588 kg)
19" and 21"
20"
4 or more
2,300 lbs (1,043 kg)*
350 lbs (159 kg)
230 lbs (104 kg)*

Thanks for the explanation. Doesn't make sense to me, but good to know.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

There has been a lot of talk about going with an aftermarket hitch. From what I've been able to find, you can't enable the towing mode if you go aftermarket. Here are some of the changes they make with the MY hitch mode. From page 75 in the owners manual. The bolding is mine. Sorry about the formatting.

1. Trailer Mode
   Trailer Mode must always be active when towing a trailer. When you connect a trailer’s electrical connection while the vehicle is in Park, Model Y automatically engages Trailer Mode. When you disconnect the trailer’s electrical connection, Trailer Mode does not automatically disengage. To manually engage or disengage Trailer Mode, touch Controls > Driving > Trailer Mode on the touchscreen. One of the following indicators displays:

Some Autopilot features, as well as rear parking sensor functionality, may not be available when Trailer Mode is enabled. In addition, these features operate differently:
• Traffic-Aware Cruise Control increases the following distance from the vehicle in front of you.
• Side collision warnings are active but automatic steering interventions are disabled.
• The braking force provided by Automatic Emergency Braking (see Collision Avoidance Assist on page 114) may be limited. Therefore, stopping distance may increase.

WARNING: Do not rely on Model Y to detect the trailer and automatically engage Trailer Mode. Always check to ensure Trailer Mode is engaged before towing a trailer.

WARNING: Under no circumstances should you exit Trailer Mode when towing a trailer. Doing so can cause serious injury.

Trailer Brakes
When towing a loaded trailer that weighs more than 1650 lbs (750 kg), Tesla recommends that the trailer be equipped with its own brake system adequate for the weight of the trailer. Ensure compliance with local regulations. A brake controller must be purchased separately.
Follow these steps to connect a brake controller:

Yah I actually had that printed off. We’ll be going with the stock hitch. Should be a good match to the trailer. We are experienced at towing and have towed literally hundreds of combos. (RV business). We’ll be using a Tekonsha P3 brake controller.

Thanks for all the info folks.

 

[DayTrippin]

Thanks for the explanation. Doesn't make sense to me, but good to know.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Think back to physics classes and levers. A bike rack is pretty long and a load at the end, multiplied by length the lever arm can put a lot of torque on the hitch. Which could be even more than 350 pounds directly on the hitch with no lever arm to speak of.

It isn't about the weight but the force that is put on the hitch and where it attaches. Think about using a large breaker bar to remove a rusted lug not and all the force you can put on it with that big bar. Does that help?

 

[Noflash]

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Think back to physics classes and levers. A bike rack is pretty long and a load at the end, multiplied by length the lever arm can put a lot of torque on the hitch. Which could be even more than 350 pounds directly on the hitch with no lever arm to speak of.

It isn't about the weight but the force that is put on the hitch and where it attaches. Think about using a large breaker bar to remove a rusted lug not and all the force you can put on it with that big bar. Does that help?

It does help. Makes me question what size bike rack they used to come up with that rating. I have a Yakima Tilt 4 that weighs about 40 lbs before 4 bikes. It's designed to tilt away from the car so you can get in the hatch. I'm sure that would stress the limits of this hitch. I also have a cargo carrier that weighs 30 lbs before I load it up with gardening items. Maybe I should just leave the hitch work to the Outback. Thanks again.

 

[AlexHung]

It's designed to tilt away from the car so you can get in the hatch.

I don't know about the Yakima one but my Thule one isn't meant to have bikes on it when you tilt it back for access.

 

[Midnightsun]

Thanks for the explanation. Doesn't make sense to me, but good to know.

Trailers do not have impact loading such as a couple of bicycles when going over a large bump that get slammed down on the receiver easily doubling the 160lb max load rating. People keep focusing on tire strength and suspension which do have an impact however receiver attachement to the frame also has to be accounted for. Could very well be the weakest link.