_Redshift_
Member
It is crazy that the Y has the same low Cd as the 3.
0.21 is a great Cd, I am sure there will be some competition to get the best Cd for the next couple of years.
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Hyundai Ionic 6 EV sedan/hatch? leaked early by Motor Trend in full
- Thread starter Macb00kemdanno
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It is crazy that the Y has the same low Cd as the 3.
0.21 is a great Cd, I am sure there will be some competition to get the best Cd for the next couple of years.
RobDickinson
Active Member
It is crazy that the Y has the same low Cd as the 3.
0.21 is a great Cd, I am sure there will be some competition to get the best Cd for the next couple of years.
Whilst the Y has the same Cd it wont have the same CdA which is the important number at the end of it all.
_Redshift_
Member
Thanks for the info. I don’t believe there are any car companies touting the CdA, though.
This car is for the form follows function type of people. The less wind resistance the better. I think it looks good as is, but I don't mind design changes that make it more appealing, if those changes don't increase the Cd.
Full details revealed:
electrek.co
Hyundai officially debuts new IONIQ 6 with 379 mile range, teases upcoming IONIQ N performance EV
This evening, Hyundai globally debuted the IONIQ 6, which it describes as an “electrified streamliner.” Because it shares the same...
electrek.co
That’s WLTP not EPA so it’s exactly the same as a M3LRFull details revealed:
Hyundai officially debuts new IONIQ 6 with 379 mile range, teases upcoming IONIQ N performance EV
This evening, Hyundai globally debuted the IONIQ 6, which it describes as an “electrified streamliner.” Because it shares the same...
That N version does look way better than the regular EV6! Though with that wing you will have all eyes on you, all the time, even in a quiet EV. That car screams "fun" though!
Some interesting tidbits from the video:
Rear torque vectoring using two clutches. Presumably one clutch per wheel, connecting them to the rear motor. That is cool, though in an EV I'd much rather have per-wheel motors. Maybe that's still too expensive for a car at the target price point. I still want a small-ish 4 door rally-inspired quad motor EV. I don't need crazy Plaid level power, I just want the traction that's possible with quad motors.
160kW / 215hp front motor, 270kW / 362hp rear motor. The video didn't say what the max combined output is, which as we know can be less than the sum of the motors, if they peak at different speeds or if there are other limitations e.g. battery output. Still I would guess at least 500hp of peak combined output, and quite possibly 550hp+.
Track focused braking systems. N specific regen "for precise yaw control." Front brakes have 400mm rotors, 4 piston monoblock calipers. No other specs given.
Factory adjustable coilovers: height, compression, rebound. Awwww yeah!
Racetrack enhanced cooling. Now this sounds promising. No sporty road going EV to date has had truly racetrack-ready cooling from the factory that I'm aware. Model 3 set a new standard for EV drivetrain cooling when it launched I believe, but M3P is still not ready for a full HPDE out of the box without heatsoaking. I've read the Porsche Taycan is not properly racetrack ready either, from what I understand its cooling was spec'd to successfully finish one hot lap around the Nordschleife and that's it, because that number matters more to Taycan owners than actual track day or racing use.
Palladium Model S cooling might be better than Model 3 out of the box, but dat yoke...dat size... (I'm a Model S owner too but never once tempted to track a Model S. Just doesn't feel like the car for it even if it's bonkers fast.)Battery pre-conditioning for faster charging. This was listed in the blurb about enhanced cooling. Pre-conditioning really ought to be standard across the lineup, not require buying an N version!
N Sound+ : Every automaker but Tesla still seems to think sporty EVs need to play fake drivetrain sounds.
Whatever, as long as it can be disabled. Waste of engineering time though, just focus on making the car driver better. Once you live with an EV for a while you realize how awesome its quietness is and have zero desire for fake noises. (Yes you might occasionally miss real mechanical sounds from sporty ICE cars, but that's not what we're talking about here.)N e-Shift : "Vibration & shifting feel integrated with N Sound+"
Words can't even...why...I don't even... I guess if you want to feel like you're playing a sim racing game in your EV, this would be cool? Fake drivetrain vibrations seems even more backwards than fake drivetrain sounds. Who the heck wants their EV vibrating its way down the street or around a racetrack? Presumably this can be disabled too.Let me be clear, I've nothing against vibrating, manually shifting, noisy ICE cars. That's precisely what I used to drive. 
I'm against wasting time, effort, and energy making a fundamentally smooth, quiet EV do all that to pretend it's a fuel burner. One of the best things about a sporty EV over sporty ICE cars is how quiet and low-key you can be while having a blast...
I'm against wasting time, effort, and energy making a fundamentally smooth, quiet EV do all that to pretend it's a fuel burner. One of the best things about a sporty EV over sporty ICE cars is how quiet and low-key you can be while having a blast...
_Redshift_
Member
@_Redshift_ Seriously that must be it.All the other car companies still have bits of legacy folks in their upper ranks. They want to show they are doing _something_.
This fake ICE noise is their contribution.
I'm a sporty car enthusiast. Well I was many years ago, and have become so again since we got our M3P. Like most car enthusiasts, many of my friends are car enthusiasts too. Not once have I ever heard anyone say they want fake drivetrain noises played from speakers in a quiet car, ICE or EV. Doesn't matter how sporty the car is (or is supposed to be).
When the turbo BMW M5 came out and BMW made it so quiet (because modern BMW) they felt compelled to give it fake engine noises through the speakers, every car enthusiast I know ridiculed it. Car mag reviews of that M5 did the same. In talking to EV shoppers - both car enthusiasts and just regular folks - never once have I heard anyone say they care about having fake drivetrain noises. In listening to why some EV shoppers don't want a Tesla, never once has it been because of a lack of fake drivetrain noise. (More common is not liking the minimalist interior, or these days not wanting to support Elon's antics.)
At this point I'm pretty convinced nobody actually wants these fake drivetrain sounds. I have read a few reports / reviews where the person thought they wanted or liked the sounds, but after driving the EV for a while with the sounds they turned them off and basically never used them again. Quietness is bliss, artificial noise isn't needed for driving fun.
Again, I'm someone who if I had a billion dollars, I would 100% buy a Pagani Zonda F or Corvette C8 Z06 or such literally just for the sound. I love the sounds of finely engineered and tuned machines doing work. I put stiffer drivetrain mounts in my last ICE car and loved the enhanced NVH (and more precise shifting). Etc. But fake sounds played on speakers while I'm driving a real machine? No thanks. The real whine of the electric drivetrain is enough for me.
Rant over!
I would love to see more EVs come with a LSD differential on their upper/performance models (well...the ones without quad motors.) I'm sure quad motors will inevitably move down to cheaper EVs, but a mechanical differential sounds like a good stopgap. I think the Porsche/Audi EV twins may offer this on their lower trims?
The N Vision concept looked pretty cool too. I believed Mazda was supposed to be coming out with a similar concept (using a rotary generator to power a battery pack), but for all I know, these are likely vaporware.
The N Vision concept looked pretty cool too. I believed Mazda was supposed to be coming out with a similar concept (using a rotary generator to power a battery pack), but for all I know, these are likely vaporware.
The problem with fitting an LSD to an EV is any LSD worth its salt adds mechanical drag, which EV efficiency and range is extremely sensitive to. So even for sporty performance EVs, I can't blame Tesla for avoiding LSD's. I don't think the tradeoff is worth it unless you're more focused on racing / rallying / autox than on street driving. Per-wheel motors are the correct approach for EV's in my opinion - even better torque control, with none of the downsides of an LSD.
The 3x LSD drivetrain in my last ICE car was awesome. But the efficiency was sh*t. The LSD's weren't the only reason that car had poor efficiency but they were part of it. And that was a gas car where the efficiency hit was lesser because of how much energy gets wasted as heat anyways.
Yea, but the performance trims (including the Model 3P) arent as focused on efficiency to begin with (at least in comparison to the lower trims - stickier tires, wider wheels, reduced range.) Quad motors are better than a LSD, but that's not on option (maybe its price wise, maybe its car size, maybe its battery size, or all of the above...I dunno) for a lot of "smaller" vehicles today. For folks that are interested in motorsports (or at least infatuated by the marketing of it), I could see the LSD being a nice option at the least. I know there is an aftermarket option available for the M3, but if I could get one from the factory, I wouldnt mind paying extra for one. I think you can feel the rear open diff when autocrossing the M3P. I would love to try one of the lower-trimmed Porsche/Audi EV twins (which I believe come with a mechanical LSD) to see how they feel on course.
@randmness Yup I can feel bits of one-wheel spin from the open rear too, coming out of tight corners e.g. switchbacks, especially if there's some dirt strewn around to get things loose. I haven't had a chance to drive my M3P in the snow and ice yet, not sure when that will happen, but I expect (just guessing) the open diffs will be more noticeable there.
I think the M3P has pretty great traction overall for having 2 open diffs, but it's not quite where my 3x LSD Subaru WRX STi was with its DCCD center, helical front, Torsen rear. I think the M3P might have overall better traction than my first Subaru though which just had open front, VLSD center, VLSD rear! (Difficult to compare so long ago and with such different tires and different level of driving experience I had then.)
I'm still not sure if I would've spec'd an LSD option. Probably, but I'd want some hard numbers on its efficiency impact, and unfortunately I don't trust the EPA numbers even just as a comparison. Our 2021 M3P has great range and efficiency, especially now on 18s, so I would be okay sparing a little. But it's also primarily a shared family car and daily driver with regular long distance drives (not necessarily full on road trips), where its extra efficiency over our old S P85 can be the difference between saving a charging stop or not. I wouldn't want to lose that for an LSD.
I think ultimately I would have spec'd a factory LSD option. However what I won't do is sacrifice my drive unit warranty for an aftermarket LSD, nor will I replace the M3P with another dual motor EV just to get a factory LSD or two. Whereas I absolutely would upgrade from the M3P to get quad motors someday! (Yes that day is probably still far away at a reasonable price point, and that's fine by me. Our M3P is still practically new and I've dumped $$$$ into the suspension + wheels, I'm very content sticking with it for many years to come.)
Last edited:
2024 Hyundai Ioniq 6 Prototype Drive: Worthy of a "Watch Out, Tesla Model 3"
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A brief drive in the electric Ioniq 6 gives us a lot to look forward to.
www.cnet.com
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www.autoexpress.co.uk
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