Hyundai KonaEV

[KarenRei]

Yes, pretty clear that they don’t want to make this in volume & focused on pollution credits. Maybe it is cost, maybe it is battery supply.

Still the range per kWH is very good

Not really. Compare their MPGes (city, combined, highway) on the EPA stickers (higher = better)

Kona Electric:

Model 3 LR RWD

Model 3 LR P

Which anyone who even just so much as looked at their shapes could have told you. Streamlined sedans will almost always get better highway mileage than CUV-format vehicles. Even the inefficient P3D still does better than the Kona on the highway. LR RWD does better than it even in the city, where aero doesn't matter much, and 14% better on the highway. And it's not just a more powerful, sportier vehicle - it's also a larger vehicle.

 

[Sean Wagner]

Unless a traditional automaker's EVs are a meaningful total fraction of their sales, their sale price should not be assumed to actually be connected to what it costs to produce.

Simple and useful. Worth keeping in mind.

 

[mikevbf]

A pretty nice comparison between Bolt and Kona:

 

[30seconds]

So Model 3 MR w/o premium (not available yet) would be $41k vs. $36.5k for the Kona. And the shorter range SR Model 3 will be $35k. So within 6months to a year Tesla will box this in from a price perspective with a premium sedan vs. an nice econobox.

The base ICE Kona starts about $19,500 with the "Ultimate" ICE version for a $7000 premium. Edmunds was given an "Ultimate" package EV so if the premium is the same then the as-tested would be $43,000, much closer to a Model 3 MR.

Although unclear if the Kona EV is profitable it does seem that they have a better car vs. the Bolt and given Hyundai's manufacturing ability I would say they are in a better position than any other current manufacturer for 2nd place after Tesla.

 

[S'toon]

So Model 3 MR w/o premium (not available yet) would be $41k vs. $36.5k for the Kona. And the shorter range SR Model 3 will be $35k. So within 6months to a year Tesla will box this in from a price perspective with a premium sedan vs. an nice econobox.

The base ICE Kona starts about $19,500 with the "Ultimate" ICE version for a $7000 premium. Edmunds was given an "Ultimate" package EV so if the premium is the same then the as-tested would be $43,000, much closer to a Model 3 MR.

Although unclear if the Kona EV is profitable it does seem that they have a better car vs. the Bolt and given Hyundai's manufacturing ability I would say they are in a better position than any other current manufacturer for 2nd place after Tesla.

...if there were any plans to actually produce the cars in any real numbers. What is their production goal? Something like 18K next year?

 

[KarenRei]

...if there were any plans to actually produce the cars in any real numbers. What is their production goal? Something like 18K next year?

More than that - 18,6K this year, about 40k next year. But still tiny.

 

[Jeff N]

I wrote this article with new details on the Hyundai/Kia battery pack and thermal management design. FYI in case folks are interested.

“Hyundai’s new 2019 Kona Electric, with its 64 kWh battery and an EPA-rated 258 miles of range, has gotten many positive initial reviews but until now we haven’t known much about some important aspects of its internal powertrain design.....

Inside the pack there are three coolant sub-loops running through the five modules. One sub-loop runs through the driver-side floor module and one of the stacked modules. A second sub-loop runs though the passenger-side floor module and the other stacked module. The third sub-loop cools only the middle floor module.“

Exclusive: details on Hyundai’s new battery thermal management design

 

[diamond.g]

I wrote this article with new details on the Hyundai/Kia battery pack and thermal management design. FYI in case folks are interested.

“Hyundai’s new 2019 Kona Electric, with its 64 kWh battery and an EPA-rated 258 miles of range, has gotten many positive initial reviews but until now we haven’t known much about some important aspects of its internal powertrain design.....

Inside the pack there are three coolant sub-loops running through the five modules. One sub-loop runs through the driver-side floor module and one of the stacked modules. A second sub-loop runs though the passenger-side floor module and the other stacked module. The third sub-loop cools only the middle floor module.“

Exclusive: details on Hyundai’s new battery thermal management design

Why such a small battery heater?

 

[Jeff N]

Why such a small battery heater?

Good question. I don’t know, but some other cars like the Bolt EV have similarly sized battery heaters. They seem really slow to warm the pack — better than nothing but kind of painfully gradual.

I think this is the next big problem that needs to be solved for EVs to really succeed with mass adoption. Either the problem needs to go away by replacing graphite anodes with another material or there need to be self-heating cells.

A research group built cells with a thin nickel foil layer that can bring freezing cold cells to optimal temperature in just one minute.

I wrote about this recently:

https://electricrevs.com/2018/10/23/frigidity-and-the-challenge-of-high-power-coupling/

 

[CarlK]

So Model 3 MR w/o premium (not available yet) would be $41k vs. $36.5k for the Kona. And the shorter range SR Model 3 will be $35k. So within 6months to a year Tesla will box this in from a price perspective with a premium sedan vs. an nice econobox.

The base ICE Kona starts about $19,500 with the "Ultimate" ICE version for a $7000 premium. Edmunds was given an "Ultimate" package EV so if the premium is the same then the as-tested would be $43,000, much closer to a Model 3 MR.

Although unclear if the Kona EV is profitable it does seem that they have a better car vs. the Bolt and given Hyundai's manufacturing ability I would say they are in a better position than any other current manufacturer for 2nd place after Tesla.

Looks Kona EV will only be produced in small numbers and sold in few ZEV states the same as Bolt. Price comparison is not that meaningful since companies likely are absorbing costs for those compliance and PR cars.

 

[schonelucht]

If you do the math, the Kona EV sold in Europe (no ZEV credits) also comes out to around $36000. It may only be sold in the US as a compliance car, but the price is legitimate.

 

[CarlK]

If you do the math, the Kona EV sold in Europe (no ZEV credits) also comes out to around $36000. It may only be sold in the US as a compliance car, but the price is legitimate.

I don't know how EU laws work but compliance car is not just for ZEV credits but also to satisfy the fleet milieage/emission requirements. GM does have a bigger stake in this, at least in the US market, since it's selling a lot of trucks and SUV's and is relying on profit from those to support the company. At least I can say the Bolt pricing is not real as far as a legitimate product goes.

 

[banned-66611]

The Kona and Niro are great cars. Incredible range, lots of excellent features, and a really shockingly low price.

Plus you can actually order the Kona now and get a delivery date, unlike the competition (Model 3 SR, Leaf 60, VW I.D. etc).

Don't forget that Kia have a new 64kWh Soul due soon too.

 

[Argyle]

Plus you can actually order the Kona now and get a delivery date, unlike the competition (Model 3 SR, Leaf 60, VW I.D. etc).

Well... Maybe.

Canadian Hyundai Kona EV Buyers Find Delays, Poor Communication

 

[banned-66611]

Some great videos from Bjorn. Looks very, very good for the Niro.

Consumption while driving is exceptionally low, and the heat pump seems to be very efficient too as Utility Mode is only consuming around 500W, compared to 1000-1500W in his Model X. Utility mode powers the 12V and USB as well in the Niro/Kona.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Kona EV US Pricing

SEL 150 kW $36,450
Limited 150 kW $41,150
Ultimate 150 kW $44,650

EPA 258 mile range

 

[techmaven]

Note that the US spec does not include the "Winter Mode" feature that is in the car for Canada and Norway. That feature includes a 2 kW resistive heater for the battery coolant. It also has a resistive heater for the cabin heating instead of a heat pump.

 

[gene]

Today, in Ventura, CA, I saw my first Hyundai Kona in the wild. It had distributor plates on it. As it drove next to me, windows were lowered and wow! There I saw one of my favorite on-line EV journalists. Speaking as we drove side by side, I asked him if he liked the car and he replied that it's a great car. I won't say who he was but I am sure you'll see his article soon enough.

The car really looks nice, especially from the front. It's a bit bigger than I thought it would be. Most attractive part is no grill. All these ICE cars (and EV's with old school grills) look so silly to me these days.

I would like to say that last month I borrowed my father in law's Hyundai Tucson ICE for a few days while visiting Nashville. I think it is roughly a Kia Niro size. After driving Tesla's for 6 years, that Hyundai made me want to commit suicide! So many switches, none of the controls, or even starting the motor was intuitive. Sloppy front wheel drive, terrible handling and frightening to drive on slick rainy roads. Hopefully the new Niro EV and Kona EV will not be anything like the Tucson with an electric motor, hopefully it will be improved in many more ways.

 

[RiverBrick]

With the tiny production volumes they're making (18,6k/yr)

Any idea how the 18,600 vehicles per year breaks down by market?

I am astonished to read reports of up to 5,000 units allocated to Canada this year. For instance, in this article :

Review: At the right price, Hyundai’s Kona Electric could challenge the Chevrolet Bolt

In Canada, the 39 kWh version isn't coming at all and for the first six months only the Ultimate edition at $51,999 + $3,000 preparation and transportation is available. (Prep + transport is $2,000-$2,500 for other Hyundai models.)

The 3 MR is only $4901 more before tax and rebates ($58,600 + $1,300).

Due to the high price and the Ontario rebate going away, I don't think Hyundai can sell 5,000 units in Canada this year.

 

[KarenRei]

Any idea how the 18,600 vehicles per year breaks down by market?

I am astonished to read reports of up to 5,000 units allocated to Canada this year. For instance, in this article :

Review: At the right price, Hyundai’s Kona Electric could challenge the Chevrolet Bolt

In Canada, the 39 kWh version isn't coming at all and for the first six months only the Ultimate edition at $51,999 + $3,000 preparation and transportation is available. (Prep + transport is $2,000-$2,500 for other Hyundai models.)

The 3 MR is only $4901 more before tax and rebates ($58,600 + $1,300).

Due to the high price and the Ontario rebate going away, I don't think Hyundai can sell 5,000 units in Canada this year.

They announced a doubling of the rate, to 40k.