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Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by RobStark, Dec 31, 2014.
Not always... and I'd say certainly not in a good way with that "H-Tron".
Not to derail the thread too much, but imagine how good the egolf could have been if they hadn't been limited by an ICE design? imagine a golf, but with storage space under the hood for example, or a lower centre of gravity, or any of a number of things.
Sure, they managed to kludge together a BEV that managed to have no additional negatives over it's ICE donor, but that doesn't mean it's the best EV they could have built, or that there aren't compromises made to fit the donor vehicle.
Agree that the e-Golf could have been better if it had been designed only for a BEV drivetrain, but this isn't necessarily the case when considering real life practicalities. A dedicated BEV platform would likely be made in relatively small volume, and won't be designed as any other practical car (traditional car companies sadly have the idea that BEVs are something completely different), which means you might end up with an expensive weirdmobile. For instance, I would much rather have seen BMW make an all-electric 3-series than the i3.
I think that for many car companies, the right choice is to take a 20k USD volume model platform, and then stuff a 20k USD BEV drivetrain in it, rather than develop a dedicated BEV platform for 30k, and then put in a 10k USD BEV drivetrain in it. An extra 10k in batteries should be an extra 150 miles of range.
The E-Golf is not an ICE conversion though. That MQB platform was designed with the BEV and PHEV applications in mind. It's one example where if you design a platform with EVs in mind, it'll be better than an ICE conversion. An example of an ICE conversion is the Focus EV, where it loses a considerable amount of trunk space.
There are some ICE conversions where you get lucky because the ICE car used a sandwich architecture that fits well with a floor battery design. Examples include the iMIEV and the Smart electric drive.
To bring it back on topic, this Hyundai example may also be a step up from an ICE conversion if they designed the platform from the ground up for plug-in applications.
However, it will still be slightly worse than a dedicated one. So far none of the automakers have matched the versatility of the Model S (in terms of cargo room and frunk). I don't think there is truly a dedicated one so far other than the Model S. The Leaf uses a modified Versa platform. The i3 has compromises because of accommodating the REx.
Agree. VW probably could (and hopefully will) make an excellent, ground-up BEV someday when they commit to it. Until then, I don't see any compromises in the eGolf - it is a proven platform that has excellent handling, and outstanding performance with an EV drivetrain. In fact, when I'm in CA and faced with the P85, eGolf driving decision every day, I actually alternate unless range dictates the P85. On the other hand, the purpose-built i3... well... I wouldn't be caught dead in it. Would probably jump on a decent BEV 3 series. YMMV
More information about the Ioniq today: IONIQ: A Leap Forward for Hybrid Vehicles Hyundai Media Newsroom
Seems the EV version won't be unveiled until the Geneva Motor Show in March, so about the same time as the Model 3. We'll have to see if it reaches customers in 2016.
Thanks for the link. There's A LOT to analyze here!
First, my suspicions were correct: the IONIQ is first and foremost designed around a gas/electric hybrid powertrain. If you look at the detailed graphic of the unibody structure, the floorpan is Advanced High Strength Steel (AHSS) rated for over 60 Kgf. You can see the tunnel built for the exhaust pipe, which exists in the powertrain diagram. This is important because it almost certainly rules out the use of a skateboard battery platform in the pure EV version of the IONIQ (deleting this floorpan to use a skateboard battery would have serious consequences for the rest of the body and chassis, basically requiring an entire re-design). This has several probable consequences for the BEV edition: worse weight distribution, higher center of gravity, and lower cargo space versus Tesla, GM, and Nissan.
Second, Hyundai is placing great empahsis on the hybrid powertrain: "world's highest thermal efficiency", "Dual Clutch transmission". The LiPO battery description takes a potshot at NiMH battery (used in Prius). It's obvious that Hyundai is gunning for Toyota and looking to take down the Prius.
It is likely than anyone who thinks the IONIQ will compete with Model 3 is likely in for a big disappointment. This car is NOT designed from the ground up to be a BEV. The EV version probably won't even be competition for the Chevy Bolt.
Well... the following article on InsideEVs has this gem
"We have been told to expect second generational-type longer range in the BEV, but not near to the extent of 200 mile offerings like the Chevrolet Bolt EV/Tesla Model 3."
Hyundai IONIQ Gets Fully Revealed - Images Plus Video
Someone on the Norwegian EV forum have been speculating on 46 kWh battery capacity, which might give it an EPA range of ~150 miles. I wouldn't expect much more than that, at least.
Automotive News Hyundai: Expect Ioniq hybrid in Q3
January 17, 2016 - 12:01 am ET DETROIT -- Hyundai will launch hybrid and all-electric versions of its Ioniq five-door hatchback in the third quarter, said Dave Zuchowski, CEO of Hyundai Motor America
Zuchowski said the Korea-made hybrid and EV will arrive in showrooms about one month apart, with a plug-in hybrid version to follow. All were designed on the same platform, saving hundreds of millions of dollars in development. Because they share the same name, Hyundai also expects to save money on advertising.
Hyundai Estimates Electric Range For IONIQ PHEV At 32 Miles IONIQ BEV At 155 Miles
Interesting - the 155 mile range is higher than I expected, though as the article states, we're not sure how those miles are calculated and what the real world numbers may be. Either way - the numbers are a good start - that's for sure.
Now the purchase price?....and if and when that is announced......March 24th perhaps :biggrin:
If that's 155 EPA miles, that's pretty good. If it's NEDC, that's the same as the 30 kWh Leaf.
I'm (mildly) optimistic of around a true 150 miles. The 'intewebs' is assuming a potential near 10kWh battery for the PHEV (similar to the Sonata PHEV) for which they claim 32miles electric range. If we follow the pattern we are looking at around a possible 50kWh battery for the BEV version so 150miles could be possible on this sized car. I hope the NEDC test dies a miserable death.
This article states a range of 105 miles. Hyundai Ioniq Electric Vehicles: Range and Pricing Details
The more I think about it the more the lower range value becomes believable. You really can't have a car designed primarily with an ICE in mind to be able to fit in a 50kWh+ sized battery when needed. So are we looking at closer to a 30kWh capacity perhaps!
If this is the case, I am disappointed. I was hoping for at least 150 if not more.
Yep. The original article that reported 155 miles BEV and 32 miles PHEV was British. They also reported the HEV as 79 mpg. That's because they were using UK gallons and NEDC estimates for their local readership.
Translated to likely US EPA estimates:
BEV 105 miles range
PHEV 22 miles range
HEV 53 mpg
Report says 28kWh and 105 miles range. Basically think Leaf with 30kWh option.
Funny to see comments in the articles getting in tftf's face for having another one of his Model 3 killers turning out to be nothing.
Yeah, the Ioniq is looking like a dud. Shame.
Did your assumptions hold up? In your opinion, does it have "decent" range to sell well at the announced price?