rxlawdude
Active Member
Let's also not forget Hyundai's history of not being forthright with their fuel consumption figures.
Hyundai to Launch 2016 Midsize BEV Powered By Next-Gen LG Chem Batteries
- Thread starter RobStark
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gene
Supporting Member
flankspeed8
Member
Agreed. How is it 5 years after the Volt, not a single manufacturer has been able to build a PHEV with a longer range. Not even close.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Well it looks like the Ioniq is going to be dud. Less range than a Nissan leaf (105 vs. 107). What does that say about about "LG Chem next gen batteries"? Hyundai IONIQ Electric Has A 28 kWh Battery, 105 Miles Real Range
Edit: Oops, helps to refresh the page, few days late here.
That Hyundai are too cheap to put more than 28kW worth of them into their car? The range is disappointing but what did we expect here? Hyundai's stake in the automotive industry is not to lead but to follow by providing low cost, reliable alternatives to other cars on the market - and the IONIQ is in line with this.
glhs272
Unnamed plug faced villian
Personally, I had low expectations. But I wouldn't have minded being pleasantly surprised by Hyundai building a useful 150+ mile BEV. However, this IONIQ has been pumped up by the TSLA bears for the last year or so as another Telsa killer. Pointing to the LG chem battery as proof of Telsa's soon to be obsolete battery "moat". Certainly, there was a bunch of promises and hype that this car would be a "real" BEV car. By building a middle of the pack short range EV, this car smells of compliance car just like all the rest. With the 200 mile GM/LG Bolt and next gen leaf just around the corner, I wonder what Hyundai are trying to accomplish with this car? At $33-35K this won't even be cheaper than it's competitors in class.
To me this tells me "next gen" LG chem batteries are no guarantee of a large battery or even a significant improvement over current generation technology. It seems they are simply a minor improvement over existing large format cells. Like the older leafs vs. current leaf (24kw vs. 28kw). So no significant breakthrough in technology. It will take an truly invested automaker/electronics integrator (like LG themselves) to make a large pack out these cells. Perhaps LG won't sell an automaker large quantities of cells unless they themselves are the builders of the packs and associated electronics (like the bolt). Perhaps they are using their leverage as a major cell supplier to dominate automakers in the future. <speculation>
Don't judge the tech based on a specific implementation. LG Chems cells seem to be pretty good, but the automaker decides whether to take out the benefits in reduced cost or in increased range. Hyundai opted for the former.
igotzzoom
Active Member
can anyone confirm that this has LG batteries? (let alone next gen LG batteries)
the Kia Soul EV uses Samsung batteries. This, as expected, seems to be repackaging the Kia Soul EV into a Kammed Kammback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Elantra body.
Surely its not Hyundai/Kia responsibility to correct (non Korean) wrong rumors about future products, based upon what was described in Korea, to a Korean audience, with Korean drive cycle and Korean fuel use expectations.
Many car manufacturers seem to use different suppliers for their EV batteries compared to their HEV batteries. (well GM and Nissan come to mind anyway)
the Kia Soul EV uses Samsung batteries. This, as expected, seems to be repackaging the Kia Soul EV into a Kammed Kammback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Elantra body.
Surely its not Hyundai/Kia responsibility to correct (non Korean) wrong rumors about future products, based upon what was described in Korea, to a Korean audience, with Korean drive cycle and Korean fuel use expectations.
Many car manufacturers seem to use different suppliers for their EV batteries compared to their HEV batteries. (well GM and Nissan come to mind anyway)
mtndrew1
Active Member
The Kia Soul EV uses batteries from SK Innovation.
Charged EVs | Kia Soul EV to use new SK Innovation battery cells
SK Innovation is a small supplier (in regards to EV batteries anyhow) which is trying to grow to compete with Samsung and LG Chem. They recently doubled annual EV cell production and inked a deal with Mercedes-Benz.
Mercedes Snubs LG Samsung, Goes With SK Innovation For Future Batteries | CleanTechnica
The Ioniq appears to use the same or very similar floorpan design for HEV, PHEV, and BEV models, so the potential volume of cells may be limited to the space otherwise designated for the gasoline tank and/or PHEV pack (think Focus EV config). The Soul EV uses a unique-to-the-EV floorpan that allows for stacks of cells much like the Nissan Leaf, with a set under the front seats, rear seat foot rests, and rear seat.
Given that the Ioniq uses a totally different design, platform, and battery supplier than the Soul EV, there's a possibility that the capabilities of the cars could diverge significantly.
The Soul lineup is scheduled for a refresh this summer for the 2017 model year and SK Innovation is trying to step up its game in the race for EV contracts, so that would be a better indication of Kia's trajectory than the Ioniq release. The Soul has room for more cell stacks than the Ioniq so a larger pack might just be around the corner (it's currently 30.5 kWh.)
At the Geneva auto show they are saying 155 miles of range. With 28 kw that amounts to 180 watts per mile which seems impossible to me. at 100 miles of range that's 280 watts, which seems more realistic. Turn on the heater, and you're down to 75. Plus every night you have to full charge this vehicle. Anyone know how many kw the Model 3 will have?
I would say the median expectation is that the Model 3 will have 55 kWh in the base config and maybe 75 kWh in the top config.
mtndrew1
Active Member
The 155 mile is the unrealistic NEDC rating and similar to the 30 kWh 2016 Nissan Leaf. Hyundai is saying the EPA-like Korean rating should be ~110 miles. The Ioniq will need to compete on price and features.
igotzzoom
Active Member
This really puzzles me since two of the largest EV battery suppliers are LG Chem and Samsung SDI. You'd think Hyundai would be a little further ahead on the range issue.
You'd think so though I guess it is limited because the car is designed primarily with an ICE in mind so the architecture most likely wouldn't suit a much larger battery. To jam a 28kWh battery into it is somewhat impressive when looking at it this way. I do wonder if they're gauging the customers to see what versions they like. Maybe if the BEV version is popular enough they may move forward with a longer range vehicle though this would require a quite dramatic 'ground up' architecture change - essentially a whole new platform. I'm pretty confident a BEV is on the drawing board, at least, of most manufacturers these days. But you're right - the Koreans should be all over this already.
ecarfan
Well-Known Member
I doubt that the Model 3 will not have the space available to pack 75kWh worth of batteries into. My expectation is that the base pack will be around 50kW with an option for 65kW. But like everyone, I am just guessing.
The Ioniq will not be a direct Model 3 competitor because it will likely have much less range. Also, no properly designed high speed charging network.
Space shouldn't be an issue. The Bolt has room for 60 kWh, and it is a smaller car. Tesla will also probably have a more energy dense pack, using the new ~20700 battery cell format and a newer chemistry. They might have to stack some of the modules under the rear seats or at the front like the Model S/X, though.
2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid - Not a bad looking EV!
2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid, Electric: more notes from Geneva Motor Show
Only real miles to be 107 miles or so, but looks like a nice looking EV can be achieved at the $35,000 price mark.
I am more excited for the 31st!
2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid, Electric: more notes from Geneva Motor Show
Only real miles to be 107 miles or so, but looks like a nice looking EV can be achieved at the $35,000 price mark.
I am more excited for the 31st!
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