Hyundai vs. Tesla | Why Hyundai Poses the Biggest EV Threat

[patmurphey]

I wouldn't worry about Tesla while their backlog is 6 months to a year with huge margins being invested in growth. There is plenty of room for competition. No EV maker is finding any difficulty selling all they can build. My $55,000 out the door 2021 Model Y LR is a fabulous car and I'm not particularly impressed with alternatives.

The truly sad thing is that Tesla is the only company investing in charging infrastructure (VW 2-billion-dollar penalty investment is over.) It is a stupid failure because Tesla has proven that charging infrastructure can be operated at a profit. While we paid the capital cost of building the Supercharger network in the price of our cars, the other manufactures expect other companies and the taxpayers to pay for charging.

 

[cusetownusa]

I wouldn't worry about Tesla while their backlog is 6 months to a year with huge margins being invested in growth. There is plenty of room for competition. No EV maker is finding any difficulty selling all they can build. My $55,000 out the door 2021 Model Y LR is a fabulous car and I'm not particularly impressed with alternatives.

That's a good point...in reality the Ioniq 5 and EV6 aren't posing a threat to Tesla but to all ICE vehicle manufacturers. These tesla "killer" articles always miss the bigger picture. It isn't like there is a separate and stagnant EV market where all the EV players are fighting over this small market, but instead its one big car market.

Tesla will sell every car they can make for a long time...same with any company making solid EVs like the Ioniq 5 and EV6. Its the ICE cars that are being replaced.

 

[Whtrbt7]

As former Ioniq 5 owner, i can say the only thing I'm missing is the ventilated seats. Telsa really should have these, fully agree. The HUD and 360 view system, not so much. 360 view looks super cool in the beginning, but then you will soon find out that you can't trust it to navigate tight spots, because it's top-down view and there's slight delay in the imagine. Also try using that 360 view to parallel park, it's very strange and I was doing all the distances wrong using the 360. I would almost always use camera only. HUD is another one. It seems super useful on paper, but Hyundai doesn't integrate HUD with AppleCar play or Android Auto. So in order to really take advantage of HUD, you need to use build-in infortainment / map system. The map system is a disaster and a serious joke in year of 2022. Think back when you first got TomTom or Garmin, that's basically the same sophiscation that Hyundai's map provides. Charging speed is a big plus, 20-80% in 18 minutes, but that really only happens when stars align for you on that day. That's after you get lucky with EA app that doesn't give you any issues when you just want to activate a session. Also there's no battery precondition so you really need to go in station 'hot' + having 350w available. Yes, Tesla charges at lower speed but with so many SC available you really don't want to spend that much time at each station to get to 80% before moving on. Ioniq 5 is a good car, but too many little annoyance with it that's just not for me.

Agreed on the camera delay. The 360 view can be shifted if you swipe the screen but it’s a stitched image and it’s too much trouble for parallel parking and you’re better off using mirrors. The reason why H/G/K have CarPlay/Android Auto is because the maps suck on the cars and you’re better off using your phone. EA chargers are also hit or miss depending on where you go.

 

[Nrvna76]

I certainly hope other companies keep innovating so that it helps all of us.

One thing I continually look for in reviews and never get is an overall experience of the car and it's associated app. Trying to find information on how a particular EV's PAAK works, or if the scheduled departure/charging works, etc.. is impossible. It's nice to know right now that if I fire up the Tesla app (while at times it takes a few seconds to load), I will be able to turn the HVAC on, see charging status, check the cameras, set a departure time, open the trunk, etc. From what little I can find about other vehicles nothing else works as well and that downgrades the overall experience of ownership IMO.

Also, dealer markups are nuts and quickly shrink some of the savings being discussed. When I try to look and see if there are any other 7 seat EV SUV's out there I come up fairly empty.

 

[patmurphey]

I have to laugh at all of the "influencers" on YouTube who claim that Tesla is doomed because of diminishing "market share". As long as Tesla is selling every car, they can build with factory output growing at 150% a year, share is irrelevant. It is a very good thing if every other EV maker increases sales rapidly. But, since production is the limiting factor in EV adoption today and in the near future, all discussion of success in the market should be centered on production and not sales.

Tesla is likely to sell over 3 million cars in 2025, all they can build. Does it matter if others total 1 million or 3 million, Tesla would still be a raging success? It's ICE cars and manufacturers that have a problem.

 

[Need]

As former Ioniq 5 owner, i can say the only thing I'm missing is the ventilated seats. Telsa really should have these, fully agree. The HUD and 360 view system, not so much. 360 view looks super cool in the beginning, but then you will soon find out that you can't trust it to navigate tight spots, because it's top-down view and there's slight delay in the imagine. Also try using that 360 view to parallel park, it's very strange and I was doing all the distances wrong using the 360. I would almost always use camera only. HUD is another one. It seems super useful on paper, but Hyundai doesn't integrate HUD with AppleCar play or Android Auto. So in order to really take advantage of HUD, you need to use build-in infortainment / map system. The map system is a disaster and a serious joke in year of 2022. Think back when you first got TomTom or Garmin, that's basically the same sophiscation that Hyundai's map provides. Charging speed is a big plus, 20-80% in 18 minutes, but that really only happens when stars align for you on that day. That's after you get lucky with EA app that doesn't give you any issues when you just want to activate a session. Also there's no battery precondition so you really need to go in station 'hot' + having 350w available. Yes, Tesla charges at lower speed but with so many SC available you really don't want to spend that much time at each station to get to 80% before moving on. Ioniq 5 is a good car, but too many little annoyance with it that's just not for me.

But how about the foot rest? LOL. I watched reviews of the Ioniq 5 and I was thinking.... I wish my Model 3 or Model X would have foot rests. That would make my Netflix session while charging or waiting for my wife in the car much more relaxing LOL.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

But how about the foot rest? LOL. I watched reviews of the Ioniq 5 and I was thinking.... I wish my Model 3 or Model X would have foot rests. That would make my Netflix session while charging or waiting for my wife in the car much more relaxing LOL.

haha, I used exactly Zero time of foot rest. It's way too low to literally do anything, for anyone over 5'8". Not sure why Hyundai even bothered with it. Basically a gimmick that checks of a box. f

 

[sleepydoc]

I haven't watched the videos but I would agree that Hyundai/kia will likely pose a significant threat. Overall they make some solid, reliable cars. As @Jersey_guy_202 said, the tech may be very run of the mill but that's all many consumers expect. Hyundai & Kia also have a much larger dealer network than Tesla, potentially giving them a larger reach. The other issue is Elon Musk is starting to alienate some consumers with his antics. i've talked to more than one person who are not anti-EV, but are decidedly anti-Tesla.

The current market is messed up and everyone has a 6 month wait. As long as that continues then everyone will be selling all the cars they can make. Once the supply chain issues normalize and we're back to a more normal situation it will be interesting to see how the market shakes out.

 

[AndrewZ]

I have to laugh at all of the "influencers" on YouTube who claim that Tesla is doomed because of diminishing "market share". As long as Tesla is selling every car, they can build with factory output growing at 150% a year, share is irrelevant. It is a very good thing if every other EV maker increases sales rapidly. But, since production is the limiting factor in EV adoption today and in the near future, all discussion of success in the market should be centered on production and not sales.

Tesla is likely to sell over 3 million cars in 2025, all they can build. Does it matter if others total 1 million or 3 million, Tesla would still be a raging success? It's ICE cars and manufacturers that have a problem.

What if I told you that inventories appear to be building and not all cars are sold?

Here are new Model S’s available in stock right now around a California zip code

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

Go look at the used inventory that are likely trade-ins or buybacks, there’s a surprisingly large amount of vehicles in stock.

People are way too caught up in the factory order times

 

[thesmokingman]

What if I told you that inventories appear to be building and not all cars are sold?

Here are new Model S’s available in stock right now around a California zip code

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

Go look at the used inventory that are likely trade-ins or buybacks, there’s a surprisingly large amount of vehicles in stock.

People are way too caught up in the factory order times

You could always find an S which matters none to the supply demand issues as those are not the cars everyone wants, besides the fact that those are low volume high end. Try to find a 3 or Y, good luck with that.

 

[gavine]

I considered the Niro & Kona before I bought my Y. Don't think the Ioniq was around. I like the Y but I'll tell you, I don't think I'd buy it now at the current pricing. It's almost 20K more. I had to swallow hard enough to cough up 50K for mine. If I were doing it today, I'd probably get a competitor and rely on the camry hybrid for travel (the car with a spare tire). Although I did look at the Kona & Niro, I'd probably be gravitating towards the Ioniq. I don't take a lot of trips so knowing what I know now, the range is a little less important once I relegate an EV for non-trip. I've used superchargers twice in 2 years.

I bought my Kona Limited in April of 2021. The MSRP was $43K. There was a $3K cashback from Hyundai at the time. The dealer took another $1K off MSRP for me as well (negotiating was still a thing back then). After federal and state incentives, my out the door cost was around $31K plus tax. As much as this car is not even close to a Tesla, it's still a lot of car for the money.

By the way, the only reason I got the Kona instead of a Tesla is because we needed a car and the wait for Tesla, at the time, was 16 weeks. The Kona was available off the dealer lot.

 

[M0SA]

You could always find an S which matters none to the supply demand issues as those are not the cars everyone wants, besides the fact that those are low volume high end. Try to find a 3 or Y, good luck with that.

I think you are pretty spot on, all the rich people around here are lining up for model X at that price point. We happened to snag an inventory 3 during an end of quarter/year push probably thanks to someone here putting a hold for non existent incentives. Obviously that is the exception, really rare to find an inventory model 3 and near impossible to find an inventory model Y.

 

[Big Earl]

What if I told you that inventories appear to be building and not all cars are sold?

Here are new Model S’s available in stock right now around a California zip code

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

Go look at the used inventory that are likely trade-ins or buybacks, there’s a surprisingly large amount of vehicles in stock.

People are way too caught up in the factory order times

I see eleven Model S Plaid ranging from $136,000 to $157,000. No 3, no X and no Y. I'm not sure if this is the best example of inventories building since it's such a niche car with a pretty high price tag.

 

[AndrewZ]

There were a handful of brand new Y's available in Florida that Sawyer Merritt had posted on his Twitter a week or two ago, just sitting in inventory, I'm not sure if they're still listed. It's pretty tough to determine total new vehicle stocks with the way Tesla's new inventory search is set up by zip code

I count 34 used Model 3s ranging from 2019-2021 sitting in inventory around that Cali zip code and tons more across the country. I think I counted 49 Model Ys listed, ranging from 2020-2021 and a 2022 MYP with 8,800 miles.


Knowing how the auto market has been functioning since the pandemic, used inventories building is likely the precursor to new inventory builds. If demand was THAT insane, these used vehicles wouldn't be sitting in stock. Considering the volume of vehicles Tesla is planning on producing with the new factories and expansions, this could flip really hard and really fast.

 

[Need]

I see eleven Model S Plaid ranging from $136,000 to $157,000. No 3, no X and no Y. I'm not sure if this is the best example of inventories building since it's such a niche car with a pretty high price tag.

I see used Model 3 with my zip code, but the cheapest used Model 3 AWD is a 2019 with 30,000+ miles. They are selling it for $59,500, only basic AP is included and FSD is NOT included. A new Model 3 AWD is $57,990. I understand if a 3rd party trying to sell a used Tesla would jack up the price because of the demand. But Tesla itself is doing it when they are the one selling the new ones as well. It just seems wrong.

 

[M0SA]

There were a handful of brand new Y's available in Florida that Sawyer Merritt had posted on his Twitter a week or two ago, just sitting in inventory, I'm not sure if they're still listed. It's pretty tough to determine total new vehicle stocks with the way Tesla's new inventory search is set up by zip code

I count 34 used Model 3s ranging from 2019-2021 sitting in inventory around that Cali zip code and tons more across the country. I think I counted 49 Model Ys listed, ranging from 2020-2021 and a 2022 MYP with 8,800 miles.


Knowing how the auto market has been functioning since the pandemic, used inventories building is likely the precursor to new inventory builds. If demand was THAT insane, these used vehicles wouldn't be sitting in stock. Considering the volume of vehicles Tesla is planning on producing with the new factories and expansions, this could flip really hard and really fast.

I’m not sure what you are implying It seems to me like thousands of people are still waiting months for their new Teslas. Just because these same people don’t want to pay 56k for a three year old rear wheel drive model 3 with 30k miles doesn’t mean there isn’t substantial demand for new cars.

 

[AndrewZ]

I see used Model 3 with my zip code, but the cheapest used Model 3 AWD is a 2019 with 30,000+ miles. They are selling it for $59,500, only basic AP is included and FSD is NOT included. A new Model 3 AWD is $57,990. I understand if a 3rd party trying to sell a used Tesla would jack up the price because of the demand. But Tesla itself is doing it when they are the one selling the new ones as well. It just seems wrong.

It's worse when you consider that a Model 3 AWD was selling for <$50k in 2019

I’m not sure what you are implying It seems to me like thousands of people are still waiting months for their new Teslas. Just because these same people don’t want to pay 56k for a three year old rear wheel drive model 3 with 30k miles doesn’t mean there isn’t substantial demand.

I've been watching delivery threads and seeing people suddenly getting their vehicle way before they expected, timelines appear to be coming in generally.

But part of what I'm saying is that people are too caught up in factory orders. If you put in a factory order for a brand new vehicle, it's going to take months regardless because they're producing a brand new vehicle for you. Many of these orders could be from scalpers, flippers, previous Tesla owners trading in their old model for a new one and where the old model will go into Tesla's used inventory and jack up the numbers regardless.

There is inventory if people wanted it that badly, albeit you're paying a premium to get a vehicle now rather than wait for a factory order. But there are vehicles available, and this build in used inventory could be the first sign of the market balancing and potentially flipping back into the oversupply we're accustomed to having.

 

[M0SA]

It's worse when you consider that a Model 3 AWD was selling for <$50k in 2019


I've been watching delivery threads and seeing people suddenly getting their vehicle way before they expected, timelines appear to be coming in generally.

But part of what I'm saying is that people are too caught up in factory orders. If you put in a factory order for a brand new vehicle, it's going to take months regardless because they're producing a brand new vehicle for you. Many of these orders could be from scalpers, flippers, previous Tesla owners trading in their old model for a new one and where the old model will go into Tesla's used inventory and jack up the numbers regardless.

There is inventory if people wanted it that badly, albeit you're paying a premium to get a vehicle now rather than wait for a factory order. But there are vehicles available, and this build in used inventory could be the first sign of the market balancing and potentially flipping back into the oversupply we're accustomed to having.

I see your point about, let’s coin it, “the used car bubble.” I don’t see the new car inventory In my mind, new cars are not the same as used cars.

 

[AndrewZ]

I see your point about, let’s coin it, “the used car bubble.” I don’t see the new car inventory In my mind, new cars are not the same as used cars.

Some of these are barely used and barely marked up

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

A 2022 MYP with FSD, 8k miles and just like $1600 above the list price of a brand new factory order comparably equipped, except you get it right now. And yet it's sitting in inventory. Maybe the extra FSD cost is that much of a deterrent, but I don't see why someone looking for a MYP with FSD wouldn't opt for this.

There are 2021s with minimal mileage too. The central bank isn't close to done with raising interest rates to cool demand, which will put downward pressure on vehicle sales as financing costs continue increasing.

 

[M0SA]

Some of these are barely used and barely marked up

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

A 2022 MYP with FSD, 8k miles and just like $1600 above the list price of a brand new factory order comparably equipped, except you get it right now. And yet it's sitting in inventory. Maybe the extra FSD cost is that much of a deterrent, but I don't see why someone looking for a MYP with FSD wouldn't opt for this.

There are 2021s with minimal mileage too. The central bank isn't close to done with raising interest rates to cool demand, which will put downward pressure on vehicle sales as financing costs continue increasing.

If I was shopping for a new car, I would not consider a car with 8k miles worth of boogers in it? So I still don’t see any NEW inventory