Hyundai vs. Tesla | Why Hyundai Poses the Biggest EV Threat

[spokey]

There is inventory if people wanted it that badly

But that is kind of the point. If you want it badly enough. The argument is that most consumers won't want it badly enough and will opt for that Hyundai.

Heck I just took a look and the only 2 MY in my state cost over $25,000 ($77,000 for the cheap one) more than I paid for mine with several times the mileage. You can buy two Hyundai s for that.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

Some of these are barely used and barely marked up

New & Used Electric Cars | Tesla

Find new and used Tesla cars. Every new Tesla has a variety of configuration options and all pre-owned Tesla vehicles have passed the highest inspection standards.

www.tesla.com

A 2022 MYP with FSD, 8k miles and just like $1600 above the list price of a brand new factory order comparably equipped, except you get it right now. And yet it's sitting in inventory. Maybe the extra FSD cost is that much of a deterrent, but I don't see why someone looking for a MYP with FSD wouldn't opt for this.

There are 2021s with minimal mileage too. The central bank isn't close to done with raising interest rates to cool demand, which will put downward pressure on vehicle sales as financing costs continue increasing.

So what exact are you trying to say? Person who's looking to place for new order is not going to consider for an used car that cost close to what he/she can get brand new. They understand there is a wait for new Tesla and are waiting in a queue just like everyone else, instead of going out to buy used. I'm willing to bet not many people would even know how to look up this inventory page.

Seems to me you are Implying that Tesla is faking its order page and misleading customer on wait time, when there are whopping 34 USED model 3 sitting in FL. And you also cite a few anecdote evidence that some people on this forum have their delivery date moved UP, therefore Tesla demand is weak. Did I get that right? Seems like you purposely forgot to mention that even larger group of people crying about having their EDD moving back, that to me looks like a more common occurrence. Also, once you can find brand new Model Y readily available on this inventory page, then we can talk about saturated demand. Until then you are just cherry picking some random data to try supporting your view.

 

[AndrewZ]

So what exact are you trying to say? Person who's looking to place for new order is not going to consider for an used car that cost close to what he/she can get brand new.

This is exactly what people have been doing for a long time here with the auto market so messed up, we're now seeing apparent signs of that easing.

Seems to me you are Implying that Tesla is faking its order page and misleading customer on wait time, when there are whopping 34 USED model 3 sitting in FL. And you also cite a few anecdote evidence that some people on this forum have their delivery date moved UP, therefore Tesla demand is weak. Did I get that right? Seems like you purposely forgot to mention that even larger group of people crying about having their EDD moving back, that to me looks like a more common occurrence. Also, once you can find brand new Model Y readily available on this inventory page, then we can talk about saturated demand. Until then you are just cherry picking some random data to try supporting your view.

Nope that's not what I'm saying, although the estimated delivery dates seem to be a complete guess on Tesla's end anyways. I'm saying that the presence of factory orders and long lead times isn't showing the full demand picture, and this idea that Tesla will immediately move every vehicle they have smacks of hubris. They're not moving every vehicle they have even now, just looking at used models that were likely most likely trade-ins from people who switched out older models for new factory orders. Tesla takes in a trade for $XX value, gives the person the new factory model for whatever amount difference between the trade-in and the new order, and now they're sitting on a whack of used inventory.

Many of these are quite reasonable when you consider the low mileage, build years, and recent market conditions. If demand was that insane, the vehicles would not be sitting in stock. This could be the first step towards price drops and the first step towards new inventory builds.

This factory order system has people all buggered up. If this were a physical Tesla dealership and you had 34 used 2018-2022 Model 3s sitting at a lot in Florida, there would be no question that there are Teslas in stock regardless of whether they're fresh off the factory line. Even though a factory order might be several months out, there most definitely are Tesla vehicles very much in stock and ready for purchase right now.

Especially considering where gas prices are, Tesla probably has the most in-stock EVs out of any brand/model right now. I was blown away when I saw how much used inventory is listed.

 

[sleepydoc]

If I was shopping for a new car, I would not consider a car with 8k miles worth of boogers in it? So I still don’t see any NEW inventory

no new inventory anywhere close to me and all the used inventory is the same price as a new car. Totally agree - if I'm going to pay for a new car i might as well get a new car, not a used one.

@spokey is right - when a Model Y is $70k a Hyundai looks pretty attractive.

 

[Jersey_guy_202]

This is exactly what people have been doing for a long time here with the auto market so messed up, we're now seeing apparent signs of that easing.


Nope that's not what I'm saying, although the estimated delivery dates seem to be a complete guess on Tesla's end anyways. I'm saying that the presence of factory orders and long lead times isn't showing the full demand picture, and this idea that Tesla will immediately move every vehicle they have smacks of hubris. They're not moving every vehicle they have even now, just looking at used models that were likely most likely trade-ins from people who switched out older models for new factory orders. Tesla takes in a trade for $XX value, gives the person the new factory model for whatever amount difference between the trade-in and the new order, and now they're sitting on a whack of used inventory.

Many of these are quite reasonable when you consider the low mileage, build years, and recent market conditions. If demand was that insane, the vehicles would not be sitting in stock. This could be the first step towards price drops and the first step towards new inventory builds.

This factory order system has people all buggered up. If this were a physical Tesla dealership and you had 34 used 2018-2022 Model 3s sitting at a lot in Florida, there would be no question that there are Teslas in stock regardless of whether they're fresh off the factory line. Even though a factory order might be several months out, there most definitely are Tesla vehicles very much in stock and ready for purchase right now.

Especially considering where gas prices are, Tesla probably has the most in-stock EVs out of any brand/model right now. I was blown away when I saw how much used inventory is listed.

It's literally from Tesla's press release, spelling out for you that they sold every single car they proceeded (sans 4k in transit in delivery)

"
In the second quarter, we produced over 258,000 vehicles and delivered over 254,000 vehicles, despite ongoing supply chain challenges and factory shutdowns beyond our control. June 2022 was the highest vehicle production month in Tesla’s history.
"
that basically debunks what you wrote

"I'm saying that the presence of factory orders and long lead times isn't showing the full demand picture, and this idea that Tesla will immediately move every vehicle they have smacks of hubris. They're not moving every vehicle they have even now, just looking at used models that were likely most likely trade-ins from people who switched out older models for new factory orders."

You are interpolating based off USED car market on Tesla site to imply that Tesla is somehow lying about their demand. I have no idea why you think demand through the roof needs to validated by having every used car on Tesla site is sold. There's a reason why it's called USED car, it gets bought and sold constantly. Why is this a surprise? And secondly, most people who are looking for used Tesla will start with Carvana, CarMax, Vroom...etc. I doubt they even know to check Tesla inventory page. What should be blown you away is how high the used Tesla prices are holding up. That to me is the true indication of consumer demand and perceived value that people currently have on Tesla vehicles.

 

[Ritzcarlton123]

I mean people have been hyping up Hyundai/Kia since mid-2000s when they started making good cars to compete with Toyota/Honda too.
Everyone was saying Toyota and Honda will eventually be booted out of the market because Hyundai/Kia are selling cars at a price advantage.
But look at Toyota and Honda now...People are still buying them and their numbers are just fine.

The same will happen in the case of Tesla. They will still continue to sell well and I don't see Hyundai/Kia gaining to much market share that they become market leaders.

 

[Whtrbt7]

I think there are still a good number of orders that owners are selling to used dealerships in order to take advantage of people that can’t wait. If you don’t have immediate need of one and you placed an earlier order, you can make the difference in price. I can’t really fault people for gaming the order process but if those units have issues selling, it’s a different story. The supply of the Ys and 3s are still not up to the demand for them. If Tesla releases an even cheaper EV, I really think there will be much heavier adoption. That’s the way that we look to be headed with all of the Gigafactories. In terms of market share, I think Tesla will still be one of the larger pie slices once the dust settles just due to them being one of the first successful EV manufacturers.

 

[Apprunner]

Tesla’s market share right now is simply based on their supply. None of the other OEMs can get that level of battery supply and it’s a huge advantage for Tesla. Tesla really has a large leg up.

However, the Korean twins are very good competitors. Model Y is simply too rough for a lot of people in a daily basis. Price difference also is a huge factor given the tax credit and the recent increases.

Model 3 isnt really a competitor. Much smaller inside, no hatch, and sits much lower making it much less comfortable. Right now, the only thing stopping huge sales for Hyundai/Kia is supply. Crazy waitlists for the I5 and EV6. Preconditioning is also coming in the fall. I think they are excellent alternatives and probably better values than the Model Y if you can live with the crappy software.

 

[Ritzcarlton123]

Tesla’s market share right now is simply based on their supply. None of the other OEMs can get that level of battery supply and it’s a huge advantage for Tesla. Tesla really has a large leg up.

However, the Korean twins are very good competitors. Model Y is simply too rough for a lot of people in a daily basis. Price difference also is a huge factor given the tax credit and the recent increases.

Model 3 isnt really a competitor. Much smaller inside, no hatch, and sits much lower making it much less comfortable. Right now, the only thing stopping huge sales for Hyundai/Kia is supply. Crazy waitlists for the I5 and EV6. Preconditioning is also coming in the fall. I think they are excellent alternatives and probably better values than the Model Y if you can live with the crappy software.

I get that. By the time EVs become commonplace though, Hyundai/Kia will have sold over the 200k threshold for EV tax credits. It will be a level playing field in terms of pricing.

I think Hyundai missed a big opportunity when Apple asked them to be the manufacturer of the Apple Car. The software is where Tesla is constantly innovating over what Hyundai/Kia offers. Hyundai could have negotiated that partnership with Apple to make it more 50/50 instead of just being a manufacturer to get more competitive with the software/OS.

 

[Whtrbt7]

So I guess I’ll bring BYD into the conversation as well since they sold 53,349 BEVs so far this year. They also sell plug-in hybrids too but they can produce traditional frames for a fraction of the cost since they bought a failing car manufacturer in China in a fire sale. Compared to Tesla that’s about a 10th of what Tesla has sold this year even though the MSRP of these vehicles is $55k or less but only sold in specific countries. The model that is somewhat comparable to the MY is the BYD Tang. The issue that keeps coming back is that EV production is still pretty low for most companies but the Chinese and South Korean companies seem to be producing more than legacy automakers. While they are all going to compete with total vehicles sales in the end, market share of EVs is growing and will have to eventually take over ICE.

 

[nate704]

Do you really want to rely on the Chinese cars ( Chinese owned and made) for you and your kids safety? Lol

 

[patmurphey]

Do you really want to rely on the Chinese cars ( Chinese owned and made) for you and your kids safety? Lol

Don't kid yourself, Chinese owned companies make really good cars for less than anyone else for the price. That reminds me of what everyone said when the Japanese turned up in the last century. It's only domestic Chinese EV demand and tariffs that have kept them at bay - so far.

With the exception of Tesla all of the American and European branded cars are from entities with shared ownership. Buicks sold here (in spite of tariffs) are made in China and are top rated for reliability in a recent survey.

 

[thesmokingman]

Do you really want to rely on the Chinese cars ( Chinese owned and made) for you and your kids safety? Lol

That's a really misinformed post. The Chinese are the closest to Tesla, even Elon admits to their level of competition.

Tesla’s Elon Musk Praises Chinese Rivals Like NIO and XPeng

Elon Musk calls China's auto makers 'the most competitive in the world,' highlighting crucial innovations in software.

www.barrons.com

 

[nate704]

That's a really misinformed post. The Chinese are the closest to Tesla, even Elon admits to their level of competition.

Tesla’s Elon Musk Praises Chinese Rivals Like NIO and XPeng

Elon Musk calls China's auto makers 'the most competitive in the world,' highlighting crucial innovations in software.

www.barrons.com

They might have competitive innovative things over there, but how they execute is different story. If they are so innovative and high quality, why the US doesn't allow any Chinese made cars (by Chinese company) here?

Why Haven't Chinese Cars Come to USA?

Chinese automakers have been eyeing the U.S. market for years, yet not one has started selling cars here. They just aren't ready for prime time in one of the world's most competitive auto markets. The latest Chinese company to test the waters is Guangzhou Automobile Group Ltd., or GAC, which...

www.forbes.com

Why Don't We See Chinese Car Brands on American Streets?

From Geely to Brilliance Auto, plenty of Chinese car brands seem like they have potential for American buyers. If that's the case though, why don't we see Chinese car brands on American streets?

vocal.media

 

[nate704]

Also, automakers try to copy each other, but this is just way beyond. Definitely not innovative or ethical.

Chinese copycat cars: how do they get away with it? | Auto Express

Following Land Rover's legal success against the Evoque's Chinese copycat, we look at some other examples of familiar far-eastern fakes

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[thesmokingman]

They might have competitive innovative things over there, but how they execute is different story. If they are so innovative and high quality, why the US doesn't allow any Chinese made cars (by Chinese company) here?

Why Haven't Chinese Cars Come to USA?

Chinese automakers have been eyeing the U.S. market for years, yet not one has started selling cars here. They just aren't ready for prime time in one of the world's most competitive auto markets. The latest Chinese company to test the waters is Guangzhou Automobile Group Ltd., or GAC, which...

www.forbes.com

Why Don't We See Chinese Car Brands on American Streets?

From Geely to Brilliance Auto, plenty of Chinese car brands seem like they have potential for American buyers. If that's the case though, why don't we see Chinese car brands on American streets?

vocal.media

And there you go changing goal posts. You're on a very slippery slope as to FUD. The world's largest EV market is not in the US, not in Europe, but in the China. The last thing the US legacy automakers want right now is for Nio, Xpeng, BYD, etc to enter the US market, Whether they are in the US or not doesn't change the fact that they are very competitive to Teslas and that includes safety.

 

[spokey]

Do you really want to rely on the Chinese cars ( Chinese owned and made) for you and your kids safety? Lol

They might have competitive innovative things over there, but how they execute is different story. If they are so innovative and high quality, why the US doesn't allow any Chinese made cars (by Chinese company) here?

Why Haven't Chinese Cars Come to USA?

Chinese automakers have been eyeing the U.S. market for years, yet not one has started selling cars here. They just aren't ready for prime time in one of the world's most competitive auto markets. The latest Chinese company to test the waters is Guangzhou Automobile Group Ltd., or GAC, which...

www.forbes.com

Why Don't We See Chinese Car Brands on American Streets?

From Geely to Brilliance Auto, plenty of Chinese car brands seem like they have potential for American buyers. If that's the case though, why don't we see Chinese car brands on American streets?

vocal.media

Also, automakers try to copy each other, but this is just way beyond. Definitely not innovative or ethical.

Chinese copycat cars: how do they get away with it? | Auto Express

Following Land Rover's legal success against the Evoque's Chinese copycat, we look at some other examples of familiar far-eastern fakes

www.autoexpress.co.uk

have to agree with @thesmokingman on this one. I infer from the first post that they are not well made. Perhaps unsafe. Then well may be high quality and moving on to unethical.

That reminds me of what everyone said when the Japanese turned up in the last century.

@patmurphey have to disagree. Current icon is a '74 Z. Fine car. It wasn't my first Datsun (well actually the first was my wife's). Next one was a '78 Datsun 510 wagon. Eventually had a bit of rust but heck it had 300,000 miles on it. And only 1 head gasket.

 

[M0SA]

I thought Volvo/polestar was Chinese

 

[spokey]

I thought Volvo/polestar was Chinese

Geely But that might not count. I think the Swedes are still building them. Besides that was a step up given Ford is the one who sold them to the Chinese

 

[nate704]

And there you go changing goal posts. You're on a very slippery slope as to FUD. The world's largest EV market is not in the US, not in Europe, but in the China. The last thing the US legacy automakers want right now is for Nio, Xpeng, BYD, etc to enter the US market, Whether they are in the US or not doesn't change the fact that they are very competitive to Teslas and that includes safety.

not trying to change the focus/topic here. I just wanted to show how they approach things. They are the biggest EV market because they have the one of the largest population in China and those Chinese EV makers are for domestic markets only (at least most of them), hence very large volume given the population. History of copyright violations and stealing technologies from others (industry leaders mostly), humans rights violations, lack of environmental violations, corruptions, etc tell the nature of how they do things.

here is one example.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?