I am now planning to get the full self-driving option and here is why

[boonedocks]

old threads like this are fun to read, lots of shifting opinions over time. in 2018 when this thread was created, i would have been in the "don't waste your money" camp, but now the tech has finally caught up and we are in the home stretch for AV's. L5 is a ways off yet, but useful L3/L4 is right around the corner, someone will nail it even if thats not tesla (tho i'd bet on tesla being first to market).

that said i can understand how people can become disillusioned with tesla, musk's overreliance on qualifying terms like "probably" or "i think" when making grandiose hopeful statements doesn't help anyone but the investors (which might be the point i guess lol).

When @diplomat33 joined the TMC forum I used to poke at him like you would to someone that doesn't really know what they are talking about. (fully lighthearted and in jest) since some of us that had bought in to AP1 and AP2 and AP2.5 and HW3 had seen ahhummm the progress and had formed a much better idea of what was Elon talking and what was reality.

But he definitely changed his naivety over the past several years and has more or less joined the ThoseEnlightenedToElonTweetPromises brigade LOL.

 

[diplomat33]

But he definitely changed his naivety over the past several years and has more or less joined the ThoseEnlightenedToElonTweetPromises brigade LOL.

I am a full fledged card carrying member.

 

[sleepydoc]

That wasn't even the first time Elon promised a coast-to-coast demo. The first one was supposed to happen by end of 2017. The 3-6 month was a phase Elon went through around 2018 where everything was "in 3 months maybe, 6 months for sure". That was after his "soon" stage.

So Elon is like a toddler? …oh…wait…

 

[EVNow]

A couple? What routes do you today get true Full Self Driving as originally advertised, i.e. completely driverless, your car able to drive your friends and family members around like for free and making you money driving strangers around through the Tesla Ride Sharing network?

That is not how it was advertised when I bought it.

 

[EVNow]

But he definitely changed his naivety over the past several years and has more or less joined the ThoseEnlightenedToElonTweetPromises brigade LOL.

He just switched over to naivety about Waymo

I do believe based on evidence that Waymo has solved the fundamentals of FSD.

 

[momo3605]

He just switched over to naivety about Waymo

Sigh…I don’t know what you have against Waymo, but they have working actual driverless robotaxis in production. Isn’t that an exciting development in the AV field?

 

[diplomat33]

He just switched over to naivety about Waymo

Waymo has solved the fundamentals of FSD. The fact that they have driverless in 2 different locations should be evidence to that. That is different from solving FSD. Waymo has not solved FSD but they have solved the basics of FSD. I stand by my comment 100%. It is not naivety. I think the facts back me up. It is an informed opinion based on facts.

 

[EVNow]

Sigh…I don’t know what you have against Waymo, but they have working actual driverless robotaxis in production. Isn’t that an exciting development in the AV field?

Not if it is geofenced will not benefit humanity.

I don't care how more rich, rich people and companies get. They are all already very rich.

 

[EVNow]

Waymo has solved the fundamentals of FSD.

They are nowhere close to solving "fundamentals of FSD".

What they have is a hack that works in very limited areas in perfect weather conditions.

ps : In case you can't tell, my original comment about you was just a joke.

 

[EVNow]

I think the facts back me up. It is an informed opinion based on facts.

You say that as if I can't see the facts and come to informed opinion and you are the only one who is gifted with that unique skill in the world.

Atleast have the humility to acknowledge that we can't know whether a problem is actually solved until someone solves it.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Not if it is geofenced will not benefit humanity.

I don't care how more rich, rich people and companies get. They are all already very rich.

Cellphones are "geofenced." Scaling them to cover most of the world was enormously expensive but won out over satellite phones. We have no idea how much a non geofenced AV will cost.

 

[diplomat33]

You say that as if I can't see the facts and come to informed opinion and you are the only one who is gifted with that unique skill in the world.

Not at all. I am simply stating my informed opinion.

Atleast have the humility to acknowledge that we can't know whether a problem is actually solved until someone solves it.

Again, I never said Waymo has solved FSD. I said I think they have solved the fundamentals of FSD. Not the same thing. The fundamentals of FSD means that you can safely and reliably handle common driving, that your AV does not make basic perception errors like hitting static objects or basic planning errors like failing to make a left turn. Yes, I stand by my opinion that Waymo has solved the fundamentals of FSD. I think their driverless shows that. But you can solve the fundamentals of FSD and still be a long way from solving FSD. Stating that I think Waymo has solved the fundamentals is not claiming that Waymo has solved FSD. I absolutely have the humility to state I don't know who will solve FSD. My "bet" is on Mobileye and/or Waymo but we won't know until it happens.

And tell the Tesla fans who claim Tesla has solved FSD that they need to be humble.

 

[momo3605]

Not if it is geofenced will not benefit humanity.

I don't care how more rich, rich people and companies get. They are all already very rich.

In what way has the FSD package benefitted humanity? It’s nowhere near an AV. Tesla has not demonstrated ever that their cars can be autonomous or driverless even in the Tesla tunnels that are literally just a single lane.

 

[Darmie]

In what way has the FSD package benefitted humanity? It’s nowhere near an AV. Tesla has not demonstrated ever that their cars can be autonomous or driverless even in the Tesla tunnels that are literally just a single lane.

Are the Tesla in the tunnels in fact running just by FSD Wasn't sure if the tweed on this was real.

 

[Barklikeadog]

In what way has the FSD package benefitted humanity? It’s nowhere near an AV. Tesla has not demonstrated ever that their cars can be autonomous or driverless even in the Tesla tunnels that are literally just a single lane.

Well, eLon would say that a Tesla using FSD/autopilot is 10x or whatever safer than the average car on the road...

But... the average car on the road is 12 years old and driven by a much more dangerous driving demographic.
And most accidents occur in your neighborhood, not on the highway.

The avg Tesla buyer is male, age 30-65, has a six figure income, better educated, and owns a home. This is already the safest driving demographic. Whether they drive a benz or a toyota, that group of drivers will
be X times safer than the average car on the road. I like to compare the Volvo XC90 to the Model X. Two very similar vehicles with similar owners. And two very similar safety results. Actually, fewer people have
died in the XC90... which doesn't have autopilot/FSD.

On the other hand, a day will come when a million teenagers, or poor, or other less responsible drivers will get their hands on a Tesla. I don't care how good FSD is, that safety score will plummet dramatically.
Have had this talk with a friend in the business (ins act) and he says... it's the driver, not the car.

Autopilot does have one advantage... it has a human backup safety system.

 

[whitex]

That is not how it was advertised when I bought it.

The post you quoted from from Feb 28th 2018. Tesla didn't neuter FSD until later. I happen to have a description I screen capped on Feb 26th 2018. This description was very similar until they neutered it IIRC in 2019, where Tesla achieved most of FSD by adding no functionality, simply moving features from EAP to FSD and dropping actual FSD features.

Does your car do all of the highlighted stuff? Or, what did your order page say when you bought your car, presumably before you made the comment on Feb 28th 2018?

 

[momo3605]

Are the Tesla in the tunnels in fact running just by FSD Wasn't sure if the tweed on this was real.

That was fake. Teslas don’t run in the tunnels using FSD

 

[momo3605]

Well, eLon would say that a Tesla using FSD/autopilot is 10x or whatever safer than the average car on the road...

But... the average car on the road is 12 years old and driven by a much more dangerous driving demographic.
And most accidents occur in your neighborhood, not on the highway.

The avg Tesla buyer is male, age 30-65, has a six figure income, better educated, and owns a home. This is already the safest driving demographic. Whether they drive a benz or a toyota, that group of drivers will
be X times safer than the average car on the road. I like to compare the Volvo XC90 to the Model X. Two very similar vehicles with similar owners. And two very similar safety results. Actually, fewer people have
died in the XC90... which doesn't have autopilot/FSD.

On the other hand, a day will come when a million teenagers, or poor, or other less responsible drivers will get their hands on a Tesla. I don't care how good FSD is, that safety score will plummet dramatically.
Have had this talk with a friend in the business (ins act) and he says... it's the driver, not the car.

Autopilot does have one advantage... it has a human backup safety system.

Yea i mean his statement is that AP is safer than the average driver when you account for AP + human backup. AP alone would have disastrous safety statistics since it can’t see debris on the freeway

 

[Phlier]

Does your car do all of the highlighted stuff?

Yes, but I bought the optional “TrunkMonkey - Flat Tire, Security, and FSD” version.

Speaking of which, we have an Anniversary coming up soon.

 

[Barklikeadog]

The post you quoted from from Feb 28th 2018. Tesla didn't neuter FSD until later. I happen to have a description I screen capped on Feb 26th 2018. This description was very similar until they neutered it IIRC in 2019, where Tesla achieved most of FSD by adding no functionality, simply moving features from EAP to FSD and dropping actual FSD features.

View attachment 797824

Does your car do all of the highlighted stuff? Or, what did your order page say when you bought your car, presumably before you made the comment on Feb 28th 2018?

How do we not laugh at that second paragraph?