I am posting this in every youtube Tesla topic I come across: Range loss, charge gate etc

[Spacey73]

Would you not be pissed if you lost 30 miles, half your charge rate and practically no regen for 20 miles overnight?

Gradual decline yes, overnight after update ...no

How do you know it is not many? The thread is now on page 465, sounds like a few are having this problem no?

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

Hee hee. Another one of these threads. Sure, it's a thing for some people. I keep seeing claims it's happening or going to happen to everybody, but I don't see any numbers. So how many people have documented "capping" and "slow charging"? Is it 5? 50? 500? 5000? 50,000?

And no, so far as I know there's no NHTSA investigation. At the moment it's at the "We've had complaints of 'whompy wheels' and we're deciding if there's enough there to open an investigation." stage of things. The only difference is that this time somebody got a lawyer to stir things up.

Yes, there are clearly some problems for some people (not many, not most, but possibly more than a few), and Tesla is not communicating well. This bad communication thing is something everybody has noticed is a particular problem of Tesla's. But the level of mania and paranoia is pretty intense among some on the TMC forums.

 

[BAven8068]

So you lost 15 miles of range over 46k miles? W

are you “sh*tting your pants” over 15 miles?

It’s not about slowly losing 15-20 miles over the course of 46k miles. It’s about Tesla taking kWs out of my battery over night with a software update and then when asked about it they say it’s all within spec and nothing is wrong. They won’t tell us why this was necessary so therefore we are left guessing what problems in our batteries caused them to do this.

Everyone seems to get battery degradation and actual capacity taken away confused, they aren’t the same. One happens slowly over time the other is a deliberate action.

 

[Bet TSLA]

sounds like a few are having this problem no?

Yup. A few. How many?

 

[Uncle Paul]

More like click bait than informational.

Anybody in the World that does not think Tesla is aware of this issue.

Video is more about the poster craving attention than the issue.

 

[Matt L]

More like click bait than informational.

Anybody in the World that does not think Tesla is aware of this issue.

Video is more about the poster craving attention than the issue.

Oh, there is a whole parallel thread going on this. I mistakingly clicked link and waded into it.

 

[Sonny Daze]

You're acting like this isn’t a known fact.

Wait until it happens to your Model 3 and get back to us.

It appears that it has happened to the Model 3.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Only Tesla knows the answer to that question and they are being sued to fess up.

Oh, I bet the lawyer has a fairly good estimate of how many people might be joining a class action suit. Surely it matters.

And you? How do you know you aren't part of a tiny group of crazies trying to turn a problem affecting almost nobody into a huge deal? You must have some notion of how many people are affected by this. Go on, 'fess up yourself. Is it more than fifty? What's your evidence? Anything more than speculation?

Note that I don't doubt you are personally having a problem and that Tesla isn't communicating, and is generally behaving in a way you don't like. I just haven't seen or heard anything to indicate this isn't a problem being experienced by a small percentage of the cars on the road. If so, it isn't a big deal to Tesla or the owner population, just to those experiencing the problem. If not, and it's affecting a large percentage of the cars on the road, then please provide some evidence of that. I'd like to know if I should be worried.

 

[Chaserr]

No you aren’t...unless you think battery fires are good/safe for consumers

You don't want to make that accusation lightly. If you are right and Tesla is involved in a criminal conspiracy to keep fire risks on the road and to hide safety recall information from the NHTSA it will be very bad for all of us. We want Tesla to stick around long enough to cover the warranty they are trying to avoid covering, we don't want them to be convicted of the crimes you're alluding to.

 

[tga]

And you? How do you know you aren't part of a tiny group of crazies trying to turn a problem affecting almost nobody into a huge deal? You must have some notion of how many people are affected by this. Go on, 'fess up yourself. Is it more than fifty? What's your evidence? Anything more than speculation?

There are two issues at play, colloquially known as "batterygate" (reducing max voltage at 100% SOC from 4.2V to ~4.1V) and "chargegate" (reductions in supercharging speed and faster taper @ >90% SOC).

Batterygate appears to impact a relatively small number of cars.

Chargegate appears to impact all (or nearly all) 85kWh/pre-facelift cars (I have yet to see any examples of an 85kWh car supercharging at the same speeds they did a year ago).

I am not subject to batterygate (current 254 miles @ 100% vs 265 new), but my Supercharging has dropped roughly 15-20kW for most of the curve. I first noticed it last August. I still see peaks of >100kW for a few seconds with a warm battery at <20%, but it settles to ~90kW in a few (maybe <10? - I haven't timed it) seconds. More data and examples here - Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update

 

[Chaserr]

People are discussing the capped range and forgetting they also capped power. I paid twice as much for the P on my P85 as I did for the 85. Tesla capped both from being used any more and I want them back.

 

[SSedan]

My car was good for 256miles at 65k.
2 years later at 93k now and it is down to 242miles.
I used to reliability see 118kw nearly 400miles per hour since I was unaware of chargegate at the time I didn't document well but last time I supercharged I was on the road a solid hour and navigated too and only saw 250ish miles per hour.
This kills the car for family road trips used to do 10-90% in 50minutes with is a leisurely meal with the family, betting this is 1:15-20 now.

I will admit I was fortunate to see very mild degradation when I bought 2 years ago, the drop to 242miles maybe brought it back in line with normal degradation though since I wasn't told I did several low to high charge cycles to reset the BMS and the car yelled at me for it. That was liveable when it supercharged fast...............

 

[Bet TSLA]

Clearly you don’t understand how class action lawsuits work.

And you do? Great! Please explain to me why you would think the lawyer wouldn't have a good idea what potential number of people joining a class action would be. Thanks!

As I said to the other kool-aid drinker; read the mega-thread in the Model S forum if you are interested in understanding what is happening and how it will eventually impact you.

You really seem to have trouble conducting a civil conversation. I've read good chunks of that thread, and posted to it asking questions of some of the more rabid participants. Got no coherent answers. The thread is full of anecdotes, but little or no data outside of a few individual vehicles. This is enough to conclude that some people are seeing problems, but not how many.

As for myself; Tesla have confirmed my vehicle is impacted and I have statistical data to back this all up dating back to a software update in June. So crazy? Yeah maybe, but not about this.

Already said I believe you when you say you're seeing a problem and you're unhappy with Tesla's response. But that doesn't make this a widespread or serious problem, does it?

There are two issues at play, colloquially known as "batterygate" (reducing max voltage at 100% SOC from 4.2V to ~4.1V) and "chargegate" (reductions in supercharging speed and faster taper @ >90% SOC).

Batterygate appears to impact a relatively small number of cars.

Yes, but how many? And has it changed with recent firmware updates or with time? Is there any evidence that these dark intimations that we're all going to be impacted soon based on anything at all?

Chargegate appears to impact all (or nearly all) 85kWh/pre-facelift cars (I have yet to see any examples of an 85kWh car supercharging at the same speeds they did a year ago).

Well, that's not very scary for anybody who doesn't have one of these, unless there's evidence it's spreading further.

I am not subject to batterygate (current 254 miles @ 100% vs 265 new), but my Supercharging has dropped roughly 15-20kW for most of the curve. I first noticed it last August. I still see peaks of >100kW for a few seconds with a warm battery at <20%, but it settles to ~90kW in a few (maybe <10? - I haven't timed it) seconds. More data and examples here - Tesla Supercharging - Summer 2019 Update

Bummer! I hope Tesla takes care of you eventually.

 

[Matt L]

You don't want to make that accusation lightly. If you are right and Tesla is involved in a criminal conspiracy to keep fire risks on the road and to hide safety recall information from the NHTSA it will be very bad for all of us. We want Tesla to stick around long enough to cover the warranty they are trying to avoid covering, we don't want them to be convicted of the crimes you're alluding to.

So your contention is that they just woke up one day and decided to screw a few of you over?

 

[SSedan]

If there is a battery fault large enough to cause them to cut range and severely restrict supercharging rates they need to own up to it.

What if an ICE mfg. went and whacked power and range of people's cars without explaination?

For instance imagine if VW had silently pushed the dieselgate fix, and people just noticed worse economy and less power. Would you view that as noble?

 

[iRia]

Yeah, he lost 15 miles of range!

No worries, I’ll exit and leave you guys to froth in your echo chamber. Good luck with your “lawsuit” (lol) and as long as you guys keep your YouTube fits to yourself, I’m sure nobody will interrupt your thread.

15 miles of range is one thing, but losing 15-30kW of supercharging capability is huge. Road trips now take significantly longer.

 

[iRia]

Chargegate appears to impact all (or nearly all) 85kWh/pre-facelift cars (I have yet to see any examples of an 85kWh car supercharging at the same speeds they did a year ago).

Chargegate also affects 70s and 70Ds pre facelift.

 

[iRia]

Oh, I bet the lawyer has a fairly good estimate of how many people might be joining a class action suit. Surely it matters.

A class action doesn't work that way. I've been involved in a couple of them. It's literally one person that sues and becomes a class representative.

And you? How do you know you aren't part of a tiny group of crazies trying to turn a problem affecting almost nobody into a huge deal? You must have some notion of how many people are affected by this. Go on, 'fess up yourself. Is it more than fifty? What's your evidence? Anything more than speculation?

What evidence do you have that it's almost nobody? I've seen people all across the Internet, on social media, YouTube etc complaining that their cars charging speed got nerfed, and they don't know why. Further investigation that required some technical sleuthing linked it to firmware updates.

 

[iRia]

No you aren’t...unless you think battery fires are good/safe for consumers

If this is about battery fires, then it stands to reason that Tesla needs to FIX these dangerous batteries, or take them off the roads and compensate owners for their faulty, unsafe design. Anything less is not acceptable.

 

[Chaserr]

So your contention is that they just woke up one day and decided to screw a few of you over?

no you're the only person suggesting that. Why do you think so?

@iRia if this is about fires Tesla committed and us still committing some serious crimes and the fines will be $14k per car at a minimum on top of forced recalls and potential punitive actiond. I think he suggested that excuse because he didn't realize his apologies were criminal accusations of such magnitude. His purpose seems to be as an apologist with no grasp of the discussion itself.

 

[roblab]

15 miles of range is one thing, but losing 15-30kW of supercharging capability is huge. Road trips now take significantly longer.

OK, it might be significant, but when I'm supercharging, I head to the bathrooms and go get a cup of coffee. I also have several books on my phone if hit with a scary few minutes of "nothing to do". In my opinion, loss of that amount of kW is not "huge".

I don't know what you call "road trips", but usually I get there when I plan, plus or minus an hour or so, and I've never yet have my people at the destination call the police because I'm late. I doubt that happens to any of us.

Just relax. C'mon, surely ten minutes or so longer can't ruin your whole day. If you leave home in the AM with 270 miles of range and drive AVERAGE of 60 mph, that's four hours of driving. One bout of charging will get you another four hours of driving. Unless you like punishment, eight hours is a good day's drive. If you think you need to do 80 mph all the way you will notice a significant loss of range, and you'll just have to charge more often.

By the way, I have 97,000 miles on my S and I still get 250 miles for my 90% or 275 for a full charge.