I am posting this in every youtube Tesla topic I come across: Range loss, charge gate etc

[Bet TSLA]

A class action doesn't work that way. I've been involved in a couple of them. It's literally one person that sues and becomes a class representative.

Hmm. All the class actions I'm aware of are initiated by lawyers trolling for fees. They find one or more aggrieved parties to be the primary plaintiff(s) and then sign up lots of other people with the promise of significant remunerations for wrongs suffered. In the end, they settle, obtaining $3.75 or thereabouts for each person, something substantial for the primary plaintiff(s), and 10x that for themselves. Sound familiar?

What evidence do you have that it's almost nobody? I've seen people all across the Internet, on social media, YouTube etc complaining that their cars charging speed got nerfed, and they don't know why. Further investigation that required some technical sleuthing linked it to firmware updates.

Oh, come on. Most stuff regarding Tesla on the web is FUD. If you believe it, you're a sucker. So for this issue, I've seen enough posts and complaints to convince me that there must be more than 50 people with problems. Are there 500? 5000? more? Show me some evidence. And if it's just pre-facelift Model S vehicles, then I don't think you're looking at much more than 50,000 in the total population.

A little statistical analysis should give you a pretty good handle on how many vehicles have problems. And yet I haven't seen that. So I conclude that those in whose interest it would be to discover a large number of problems (e.g. anybody involved in the lawsuit) has instead probably found a small number. So they're ramping up the noise and downplaying the facts. That's what you do when you have no case (or a weak one). So let's see some evidence.

I'll note that none of the complainers here have said anything like: "We're sure there are xxx vehicles affected, and it's likely that at least yyy are affected because...." It happened to me so it must be a big problem for many people is simply not a viable argument.

 

[Big Dog]

There are two types of people regarding the chargegate / batterygate issue, those that have been affected and care a great deal (myself included) or those that don't care but will a victim at some point and will then care.

Actually, doc, there is a third type: those of us who are not affected today but may be affected tomorrow, nevertheless we still won't care. Me, I purchased the model 3 LR for a reason, even tho I don't need that range, ever. (Just bought it for range anxiety for da' wife and since we live in earthquake country, power could be out for days.) So, 10% immediate hit on range would be immaterial. And, as another poster noted, our road trip stops are long enough that a degradation on charing speed is also immaterial to my lifestyle.

That being said, my model 3's were a whole lot less expensive than a loaded S. I can definitely understand the angst of someone who paid $100+k, and now has a net smaller battery. That sucks. Hopefully, Tesla will fix it or make folks whole. If not, any lawsuit will serve the attorneys much more than the aggrieved parties.

 

[Bet TSLA]

Get it now?

What I "get" is that neither you nor anybody else knows whether this affects more than ten cars. Or maybe fifty. Or maybe a hundred. Regardless, not many. Otherwise you would provide evidence. Right now you provide personal anecdotes of individual issues, but nothing but baseless assertions regarding the extent of the problem.

 

[glide]

If not, any lawsuit will serve the attorneys much more than the aggrieved parties.

Disagree. Tesla will be compelled to either restore our batteries to their original state, provide replacement batteries, provide appropriate financial compensation, or buy back the vehicles.

Any one of those is fine with me.

 

[glide]

What I "get" is that neither you nor anybody else knows whether this affects more than ten cars. Or maybe fifty. Or maybe a hundred. Regardless, not many. Otherwise you would provide evidence. Right now you provide personal anecdotes of individual issues, but nothing but baseless assertions regarding the extent of the problem.

Well there is a spreadsheet of affected forum owners tracking the issues and there are more than 10 vehicles on the list.

And again, you are not understanding this for some reason, ONLY TESLA KNOWS THE NUMBER OF IMPACTED CARS AND THEY ARE NOT TALKING.

So any number anyone gives you is wrong. But it doesn’t matter whether it’s 10 cars or 10,000. They need to fix it. And if it were 10 cars they would not have hired outside counsel to defend against the suit.

So you do the math. Or not. Your math seems to be 1+1 = 3

 

[Bet TSLA]

Disagree. Tesla will be compelled to either restore our batteries to their original state, provide replacement batteries, provide appropriate financial compensation, or buy back the vehicles.

Any one of those is fine with me.

If you believe that you are remarkably gullible. There is indeed a small chance that that will happen, but not more than that.

 

[Big Dog]

Disagree. Tesla will be compelled to either restore our batteries to their original state, provide replacement batteries, provide appropriate financial compensation, or buy back the vehicles.

Any one of those is fine with me.

Sure, "appropriate compensation" less 33.3% plus expenses.

 

[glide]

Sure, "appropriate compensation" less 33.3% plus expenses.

I’m fine having the attorneys compensated for their time. Just as I am fine with having Tesla penalized for their theft and arrogance.

On top of all that I get something too? Sounds like a win/win to me.

 

[SSedan]

What I "get" is that neither you nor anybody else knows whether this affects more than ten cars. Or maybe fifty. Or maybe a hundred. Regardless, not many. Otherwise you would provide evidence. Right now you provide personal anecdotes of individual issues, but nothing but baseless assertions regarding the extent of the problem.

So it is ok so long as not many or realistically you are not affected?

Disagree. Tesla will be compelled to either restore our batteries to their original state, provide replacement batteries, provide appropriate financial compensation, or buy back the vehicles.

Any one of those is fine with me.

While I think your resolutions are reasonable I believe the "fix" will be more like extending the 8 year warranty further because it will cost them less. Not saying it is right just seems like the cheap way out.

 

[iRia]

OK, it might be significant, but when I'm supercharging, I head to the bathrooms and go get a cup of coffee. I also have several books on my phone if hit with a scary few minutes of "nothing to do". In my opinion, loss of that amount of kW is not "huge".

Then that is your opinion. My experience is that I bought the car and was able to charge in a certain period of time and Tesla significantly slowed that down. I don’t care how YOU cope. This loss of capability affects my ability to use the car to my needs, and is unacceptable.

It’s like VW and dieselgate. I’m sure a few VW fanboys would have accepted a software mod that would have lowered the car’s performance and fuel economy significantly below what it was sold to customers as. All because they love VW and want to see the company succeed. But the fact is that VW sold a defective product and attempted to cover it up. Most customers wanted to be made whole.

It’s literally the same thing. I just want my charging speeds back so that I can charge my battery in 40 minutes rather than an hour and 10.

I don't know what you call "road trips", but usually I get there when I plan, plus or minus an hour or so, and I've never yet have my people at the destination call the police because I'm late. I doubt that happens to any of us.

I drive long distances. NJ to FL I did in 2018. That was possible in a reasonable time with my car back then. Today, with 20 more minutes per charge and 10 or so supercharger stops that’s 200 more minutes, or a whole 3+ hours extra.

All because Tesla doesn’t want to fix it’s defective product. Why should *I* take the fall for this, especially when they’ve slowed my speeds to potentially cover up a safety issue?

Just relax. C'mon, surely ten minutes or so longer can't ruin your whole day. If you leave home in the AM with 270 miles of range and drive AVERAGE of 60 mph, that's four hours of driving. One bout of charging will get you another four hours of driving. Unless you like punishment, eight hours is a good day's drive. If you think you need to do 80 mph all the way you will notice a significant loss of range, and you'll just have to charge more often.

By the way, I have 97,000 miles on my S and I still get 250 miles for my 90% or 275 for a full charge.

It’s not just about the charging speeds and range. Tesla is now running the cooling pump continuously at lower states of charge and it is possible that this may prematurely wear the pump resulting in an expensive out of warranty repair. They are also reducing regenerative braking thus causing our brakes and other components to wear faster.

All because they wouldn’t address their defective batteries.

 

[iRia]

What I "get" is that neither you nor anybody else knows whether this affects more than ten cars. Or maybe fifty. Or maybe a hundred. Regardless, not many. Otherwise you would provide evidence. Right now you provide personal anecdotes of individual issues, but nothing but baseless assertions regarding the extent of the problem.

If it only affected 10 cars, Tesla could easily make this go away by fixing those 10 cars. In fact, when cars previously caught fire, Tesla would quietly buy back the cars and replace the cars for the owners.

I am not saying they have to give me a brand new car. But if it’s just 10-15 cars it would seem as though they could easily make this go away by making the repairs.

Instead they’ve lawyered up and decided to fight the litigation.

 

[daviddavid]

Can someone confirm exactly which models are supposedly impacted? I have heard 85, 75, and 60's. Is this the case? I ask because I have a 90D and haven't really noticed any of the reported issues. If this is the case, what would be the difference between the 90's and 100's and the rest of the packs that have been impacted? I supercharged just last week and got 110Kilowatt charging rate. Now it is winter and I am noticing mileage issues, but I think that is the cold.

 

[Not Sure]

I'm not sure.
Will this affect my vampire drain?

 

[tccartier]

you're the one on the personal crusade here, how about adding some context to persuade people other than "hey, watch my video on youtube so I can get more views"

Actually the concerns are valid. A quick internet search will net multiple results on people experiencing this across many forums. I have seen similar issues in my model s with reduced regen and reduced charge rates at superchargers although I have not seen the purported range reduction other than normal degradation over the time frame in an amount that I would expect I have lost approximately 12 miles at any state of charge over the last 2 years. And 60k miles.

 

[swegman]

Don’t know what happened with the above post. I wrote:

The spreadsheet is just an approximation and is not accurate. The number of affected cars is more (likely much more) than what the spreadsheet shows. For example, my car is affected but is not included in the spreadsheet. In addition, many owners were (are) not aware they are affected by the voltage cap until their vehicles were connected to ScanMyTesla and shown to be voltage capped, because they accepted Tesla’s explanation that their battery is fine and merely shows “normal degradation” (using Tesla’s language).

 

[FURY]

Hi Sweg!

I have looked at the thread regarding the App for ScanMyTesla, but am not clear on the best hardware and software piece for an iPhone analysis of my "gated," at least ,battery. Ihave a 2014 S85. Is there a prewired hardware piece for this? The warning about damage to the Tesla does concern me, as Tesla has to get out of this whole issue and if they can reason that scanning the battery damaged it... I realize they can say anything, but trying to limit potential problems.

Thank you very much

FURY

 

[SSedan]

Don’t know what happened with the above post. I wrote:

The spreadsheet is just an approximation and is not accurate. The number of affected cars is more (likely much more) than what the spreadsheet shows. For example, my car is affected but is not included in the spreadsheet. In addition, many owners were (are) not aware they are affected by the voltage cap until their vehicles were connected to ScanMyTesla and shown to be voltage capped, because they accepted Tesla’s explanation that their battery is fine and merely shows “normal degradation” (using Tesla’s language).

Ditto, I haven't dug into the hardware either.

 

[Spacey73]

It's a lot more than 30kw charging rate loss for some, and the over 450 pages on the main thread suggest a lot more than 10 people affected.

I get it, some of you are worried your shares in Tesla will drop when this gets out to all the youtube Tesla reporter channels and bloggers ...then TV channels. But it is what it is, you can't just reach in and take a substantial amount of range, charging ability plus regen without even explaining that it is going to happen and why.

 

[Chaserr]

I get it, some of you are worried your shares in Tesla will drop

It boggles my mind that people come here to insult Tesla owners just to try and allow Tesla to do more harm to itself. The best thing for shareholders is Tesla cars being known as a reliable, trustworthy, dependable car that won't be intentionally crippled before the warranty is even over. The worst possible outcome for shareholders is for Tesla to cripple cars while under warranty, break warranty and/or safety laws, betray the public trust, and disenfranchise current and future buyers with an obsession on today's botton line while destroying tomorrow's. There is no logic to people who think like that, they are seemingly trying to destroy Tesla the only way it can be destroyed - by encouraging it to commit suicide and actively attempting to block every attempt at an intervention.

 

[iRia]

Can someone confirm exactly which models are supposedly impacted? I have heard 85, 75, and 60's. Is this the case? I ask because I have a 90D and haven't really noticed any of the reported issues. If this is the case, what would be the difference between the 90's and 100's and the rest of the packs that have been impacted? I supercharged just last week and got 110Kilowatt charging rate. Now it is winter and I am noticing mileage issues, but I think that is the cold.

70/70D nosecone is affected but for chargegate only.