I asked Tesla sales about the full self driving capability...

[Dstrohl]

Thanks for reminding about standard AEB that still requires at least 1 camera and radar.

Correction:

1) Manual Driving: 1 camera

There's also the 1.5) AP1 License with AP2 HW: x cameras.

(someone said it was limited to just 1 camera, but I suspect it will actually use the 4 cameras for the EAP and simply limit the features..)

 

[MP3Mike]

There's also the 1.5) AP1 License with AP2 HW: x cameras.

(someone said it was limited to just 1 camera, but I suspect it will actually use the 4 cameras for the EAP and simply limit the features..)

The email people got asking them to upgrade said that AP2 HW with AP Convience Features would only use 1 camera. (And I believe it.)

It makes sense that they would support just one camera as a graceful fallback if the other cameras fail/get dirty/blocked.

 

[soundanswer]

I love this thread.

Taking money out of the equation for a second, I really love it when hardware I own wakes up one day with super cool new features. Earlier this week when my iPhone 7 Plus woke up with "portrait mode" after upgrading to iOS 10.1 I was completely stoked. It's like "surprise gift mode"

So, if paying that bit out front for FSDC isn't going to break your bank, you've basically enabled "super surprise gift mode" on your car. Meaning later, as features are enabled, you're basically getting these mind blowing features turned on in your super magic car randomly.

Rough day? SURPRISE!!! You never ever ever have to look for a parking spot ever again. Because "super surprise gift mode: enabled"

Kids got you down? SURPRISE!!! You can take a nap on the way to work, because "super surprise gift mode: enabled"

Just not feelin' it? SURPRISE!!! Suddenly today you can get in your car and say "take me to the best ice cream in town" and your car will take you there. Thank YOU super surprise gift mode!


I mean, I always get stoked for new OS updates on my phone because, ya know, full screen lasers is now part of iMessage. All in all I'd rather pay a bit up front for super surprise gift mode (FSDC) and get these magical gifts as aspects of the software are vetted and released, rather than feeling like a grumpy old man after "these kids and their self driving cars" are zipping around and here I have to shell out $4k now just be grumpy about finding out what all the fuss is about. Future me will thank present me for enabling super surprise gift mode at the point of sale.

 

[Gregkeys]

I wonder if they will enable FSDC with the requirement to keep your hands on the wheel with nags similar to the current AP until the regulations clear which would enable them to remove the nagging and hands on the wheel.

 

[malcolm]

The statement on the 19th implies that all vehicles are fitted with hardware for safe driving (i.e. 8 cameras etc) although buyers can choose to pay to enable zero, four or eight along with the other features.

I imagine that even if they are not enabled, Tesla can still record a few seconds of camera footage on a loop which can be downloaded from vehicles as part of the data logs in the event of a "disagreement".

If there are problems with the legality of using camera footage, I imaging that ultrasonic/radar "footage" would be just as useful.

 

[davidc18]

I wonder if they will enable FSDC with the requirement to keep your hands on the wheel with nags similar to the current AP until the regulations clear which would enable them to remove the nagging and hands on the wheel.

I think you are guaranteed to be "nagged" with the new system. Perhaps in a few years when all of the features are enabled and the regulators are happy, the nags may be removed. This is my prediction based on what has happened to AP 1.0 which started nag free with fw 7.0.

 

[pjoseph]

Price is not going up more than $1,000 for current orders.

> The $1000 increase in price after delivery is not fixed, however, and could change in the future.

That would be a long, weary phone call for me.

What got me about FSDC is the compete pie-in-the-sky promise with the unknown timeframe.

 

[MP3Mike]

Price is not going up more than $1,000 for current orders.

> The $1000 increase in price after delivery is not fixed, however, and could change in the future.

That would be a long, weary phone call for me.

Why do you say that they won't raise the price in the future? They have already done it once. (Yes, even for people that purchased a car before the change, after delivery AP1 Convenience features changed from $3,000 to $3,500.)

 

[pjoseph]

Why do you say that they won't raise the price in the future? They have already done it once. (Yes, even for people that purchased a car before the change, after delivery AP1 Convenience features changed from $2,500 to $3,000.)

For current orders, E-AP & FSDC prices are quoted for both & after delivery. That is not going to increase.

The increases we are presented with now reflect the updated hardware.

 

[MP3Mike]

For current orders, E-AP & FSDC prices are quoted for both & after delivery. That is not going to increase.

The increases we are presented with now reflect the updated hardware.

Wrong. Tesla has already shown that they will raise after delivery prices even for people that purchased a car when the prices were quoted lower. There is nothing in your MVPA that says you can buy the features at a specific price anytime in the future.

 

[Az_Rael]

For current orders, E-AP & FSDC prices are quoted for both & after delivery. That is not going to increase

I wouldn't bet on that. They have raised prices in the past and owners who hadn't bought the option were not grandfathered.

Autopilot upgrade price

 

[JeffK]

You know, on the other side of the coin we also don't know if the cost will decrease when the Model 3 is released to be more proportional to the price of the car. Model S/X owners would complain so it'd go down for them too.

It's not like the price is based on hardware cost because that's baked into the price of the car, it's based on perceived value and increased margins. It's therefore more flexible, especially when we start seeing competition a few years from now.

 

[tezzla]

Another issue is for people (like me) who get a new car every couple of years, I'd be paying for software that *might* not be available when I'm ready for a new car in 2 years.

I was pretty serious about getting a new p100d after the announcement but after typing the above statement; I think I'll hold off for a another year and see how this all shakes out.

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

(But I would hope that they would retrofit, at no extra cost, that for people that pre-paid.)

I suppose they will do that just after they upgrade the hardware in all the AP1 cars to support the promised summon functionality.

 

[MP3Mike]

I wouldn't bet on that. They have raised prices in the past and owners who hadn't bought the option were not grandfathered.

Autopilot upgrade price

Can someone check and see if they raised the after delivery price of adding AP to a AP1 car to $4,000? (Since it seems that their new after delivery penalty is $1,000 instead of $500.)

 

[Gregkeys]

I think you are guaranteed to be "nagged" with the new system. Perhaps in a few years when all of the features are enabled and the regulators are happy, the nags may be removed. This is my prediction based on what has happened to AP 1.0 which started nag free with fw 7.0.

Right, the point was: I wonder if it will do something vs nothing.

There seems to be this general assumption that it won't do anything at all which is causing frustration because people think they are paying for something that won't do anything.

In contrast I'm wondering if it will actually do something with the exception that it will require a driver in the seat with hands on the wheel until the regulations allow for no driver or hands.

My thinking is that FSDC isn't much different than AP , surely they will enable something for the $3000 otherwise why even charge for it, why not just hide that option for 6 months until they can enable something

 

[tezzla]

@Gregkeys - I got my 2014 P85D in December 2014 and paid for AP, it was finally delivered in late October 2015. That's why there are many skeptics of buy now, get 'sometime' in the next 18 months.

 

[pjoseph]

My guess is that new owners will get even more incentives to buy (actually test) the new software if they don't sign up before delivery. Tesla is essentially starting with a clean slate on machine / deep learning and needs plenty of beta testers.

On a related note, Tesla's financials are not exactly pristine. Incremental revenues are easiest to come by on software upgrades (EAP, FSDC, Battery capacity).

Tesla has to come up with something new every few months to keep the excitement on. Indeed that is what their short history has told us.

 

[Dcr26]

This post is ridiculous. Quit whinning and either take the risk and pony up the cash now or just wait. I'm sorry but mommy and daddy should have taught you about he real world

There's been lots of discussion about the full self driving capability recently, and if it is worth it, so I figured I would ask Tesla sales... below is the cut and pasted transcript of a chat with Tesla from their customizer screen: (Note, before you read it and are disappointed, there's nothing really new or definitive in here, so it doesn't really answer many questions).

Me: So, in looking at the options, what do I actually get on delivery if I choose the full self driving option?

Tesla Sales: The capabilities of Full Self-Driving will not be enabled until jurisdictional approval is given, which will vary

Me: so... is there any estimate as to how long that is? (months? years?)

Tesla Sales: The technology's approval will vary by jurisdiction and I unfortunately cannot give an approximate timeline.

Me: OK... so is there some kind of commitment to refund the cost if after a certain time approval is not gained? (it is worrying to be paying for something that Tesla does not have control over)

Tesla Sales: Great question. There is no refund at this time for the feature if it is not given approval. However, purchasing the upgrade now would enable you to have access to the functionality at this cost.

Me: True, but if the extra cost is only 1,000, and with no timeline able to be guessed at, it seems like it is better off waiting and paying for it later (once it is approved and ready)

Tesla Sales: I understand. The $1000 increase in price after delivery is not fixed, however, and could change in the future.

Me: OK... I get it... so, is there ANYTHING extra you can tell me about this (beyond the 2 paragraphs on the web site) that would help me decide to get it now?

Tesla Sales: The information on our website is all of the information I currently have as well. Have you taken a look at the Full Self-Driving video on our Autopilot page?

Me: yup, cool, but uninformative in terms of what and when (which are the real questions here)... if you could say that the video represents what will be available in 12 months, its a no brainer. if you could say that the cost will be 10k in 24 months, it's an easier decision, but right now, with zero real info, it's a hard decision.(I get that it's not YOU, you are limited to what Corp will release.)

Tesla Sales: I'm glad you liked it. I wish i had an approximate timeline to give you, but it will vary widely by jurisdictional approval.

Me: Yeah, though it's not JUST that... (I assume at least), it seems like if even the advanced autopilot is not ready to equal ap1 before the end of the year, the self driving stuff cant be 100% ready for prime time either.and, having worked with getting jurisdictional approval for things at a state level at least, I have an idea of how hard it is going to be to get it across the country.

Tesla Sales: Yes, you are correct, as the software will be released over time to enhance to the Full-Self Driving Capability.

Me: do you at least know if it will be released regionally as approval is granted? (so, if Washington state approves it in 6 months, but Oregon doesn't, will it be turned on for WA residents and not Or?

Tesla Sales: That's a great question. Unfortunately I do not know how the regulatory approval will work and cannot accurately give you an answer.

Me: yeah, sorry, that was an unfair question for you... you mentioned that the price could go up, in your experience is that likely? and any estimate as to how much might be likely? (acknowledging that this isn't an official policy answer)

Tesla Sales: No worries! I'm unsure of a price change at this point, but I do know that the value you'll be receiving at $3000 is unparalleled by any car/technology on the market.

Me: OK... well, thanks for your time!

Tesla Sales: Thank you!​

So, all I really got from this is that their sales group IS saying that the price COULD go up for the feature in the future. They did not say it WOULD, just that it COULD. (personally, I suspect it will, and it will dramatically once it is working).

Other than that, they are just as much in the dark as everyone else.

(* and no, this didn't really help my personal decision to purchase the upgrade or not)

T

 

[Dstrohl]

This post is ridiculous. Quit whinning and either take the risk and pony up the cash now or just wait. I'm sorry but mommy and daddy should have taught you about he real world

Well, sorry you feel that way... however I didn't feel like I was whining (I didn't think I was whinning either, but since I don't know what that is, I will assume you just didn't spell it correctly)

When I look up "whine", the definition comes back as "complaining in a self-pitying way", In looking over my post, I don't really see anywhere I met that definition. Sure, I pushed a few times, and made some leading statements trying to see if they would have responses, but I did try not to approach it as complaining. Overall, I don't know that I feel that all of their approaches to this have been fair, and I have stated that in other posts, so I guess you could say that some of those were whining (though I hope not), but this one was not intended to be that way at all.

I actually probably will purchase the option, for my own reasons, but I wanted to understand what I got for the money, and if you read it, the actual purpose was to find out if there was more information available to sales that they didn't post on the web site. Basically, I was trying to increase the amount of information available to the people on these forums. We are all wondering about the full self driving capability, and since it wont be much (if anything) for a while, there is a lot of discussion about it, some of it heated, and some more reasoned, but there is a definite lack of information at this point.

For many people, 3,000 is a lot of cash to simply pony up, so asking what we get for the money seems like a pretty fair question to ask. If you don't ask these kind of questions, you are likely to end up with misunderstandings along the way, and probably cheated somewhere as well, so I would argue that anyone who simply throws 3,000 at a company without understanding what they will get or when probably doesn't understand the real world.themselves.

In the end though, your response was neither helpful nor critical. You simply seem to want to complain...which now that I think about it, is the definition of Whining.