I can confirm AEB does work

[S4WRXTTCS]

For now I have just turned off AEB as well as OAA. I just dislike disabling safety systems in general. In this case, though I want the car to respond to my inputs. If I make a wrong input I can live with that responsibility. If I cannot avoid an accident because of a safety feature, even after knowing its limitations, I will feel foolish.

What was the setting of OAA (obstacle aware acceleration) during these events that you talked about?

Before OAA was a thing there was some complaints (at least one significant Model X thread on it) about AEB preventing acceleration. Where it happened basically as you described it.

But, it's my understand that was removed and moved into OAA.

So the car really shouldn't be preventing acceleration even what AEB has detected an obstacle.

I fail to see how a person can effectively modulate a disconnected throttle. Obviously I wouldn't want to go flying into a car in front of me if I'm just trying to make room for the person behind me. If I had the accelerator hard the P3D will go flying.

This is one of the reasons why I disabled OAA as soon as I got the car.

 

[Vines]

OAA was off when the incident happened.

Like you say, I don't hit my throttle hard when I'm that close to another bumper as a matter of general principals. What does hard really mean in this context anyway? Are we talking hard press of the accelerator as in fast, or hard as in fully down?

How would I test this, so I can train my foot to hit the gas hard but not too hard?

 

[Paddy3101]

What was the setting of OAA (obstacle aware acceleration) during these events that you talked about?

Before OAA was a thing there was some complaints (at least one significant Model X thread on it) about AEB preventing acceleration. Where it happened basically as you described it.

But, it's my understand that was removed and moved into OAA.

So the car really shouldn't be preventing acceleration even what AEB has detected an obstacle.

I fail to see how a person can effectively modulate a disconnected throttle. Obviously I wouldn't want to go flying into a car in front of me if I'm just trying to make room for the person behind me. If I had the accelerator hard the P3D will go flying.

This is one of the reasons why I disabled OAA as soon as I got the car.

Accelerator is never disconnected, is just needs a deliberate act to override the AEB

The purpose of OOA is to STOP the car going flying when there is an obstacle in front when you press the accelerator. it will only allow gentle acceleration, if there is an obstacle.

So in the case being discussed, if AEB and OOA are enabled, and working in conjunction as designed.
The car was travelling at between 7mph and 35mph. AEB engaged and brought the car to a stop (or near stop).

Now the driver wants to immediately move forward, they press the accelerator hard enough to override the AEB, the car moves forward at a slow acceleration, because the car is now under 7mph. and OOA limits the acceleration.

 

[user212_nr]

The behavior of the car matches the manual. Is this the safest behavior?
Is it in your opinion safer for the majority of drivers, that the accelerator to be disabled during AEB events unless you press hard? That is to say, when the car is braking hard, should any touch of the accelerator disable AEB in your opinion?

Yes. In the emergency situation, the car has determined significant danger and so must disregard the light input as a possible mistake. Tesla in general has a problem with hard accelerations (not just AEB, but autopilot), and this is definitely something that they can fix and fine-tune. It would be better for them to fix the real issue (hard acceleration when not needed), then to look to the driver for help figuring out the AEB braking power. Also, pressing on the brake would have solved your situation, as you didn't want to accelerate, but rather stop/slow braking. Just be sure not to under-brake.

Also, the "hard-press" on the accelerator matches the situation where you want to go around the car into the adjacent lane (and need speed to match traffic, make the turn).

 

[user212_nr]

Like you say, I don't hit my throttle hard when I'm that close to another bumper as a matter of general principals. What does hard really mean in this context anyway? Are we talking hard press of the accelerator as in fast, or hard as in fully down?

Partial duplicate of my last post, but you just need to press or tap the brake. The car's existing momentum will cause it to continue forward, despite slight regen braking. Then you can accelerate if the danger has passed completely.

It is counter-intuitive, when you want to decrease deceleration (increase acceleration), that you should hit the brake, but you are actually releasing the brake and therefore increasing acceleration. Tesla uses the brake as a kill-switch for the autopilot also, and a tap on the brake followed by acceleration is a sequence needed there also.

 

[Kevy Baby]

The behavior of the car matches the manual. Is this the safest behavior?
Is it in your opinion safer for the majority of drivers, that the accelerator to be disabled during AEB events unless you press hard? That is to say, when the car is braking hard, should any touch of the accelerator disable AEB in your opinion?

I am not sure who your questions were meant for, but I will respond.

I went back to your original post to make sure I didn't misremember. The jist of it is that you thought the car engaged AEB too soon, stopped too short (15-20 feet), and wouldn't allow you to accelerate for a couple of seconds.

I don't know why you keep bringing this up, "Is it in your opinion safer for the majority of drivers, that the accelerator to be disabled during AEB events unless you press hard?"

1. I don't think anyone tried to claim that this event didn't happen.
2. If it indeed did, then you should be taking your car to Tesla for service as it is clearly operating outside of operating standards, to the point of being unsafe in your opinion.

That being said, if it were designed to operate this way, is it the safer option for the majority of drivers? My answer is yes. The majority of drivers in this world don't make the best split decisions in a panic situation. The car defaulted to "stop" when it perceived an unsafe situation. If everyone drove safe distances, then someone stopping quicker and shorter than expected would not be a safety issue for the person behind them (annoying perhaps and certainly not ideal, but not unsafe). Yes, there are rare instances where the best way out of a situation is the counter-intuitive acceleration, but the vast majority of drivers wouldn't be able to do this safely. You may be one of them (to which I trust you on), but most people can't.

Also (and I am not a lawyer here), I would guess that if you HAD been able to slightly accelerate and there HAD been an accident where the person behind you hit you and you hit the person in front of you, the telemetrics would not be in your favor (you have just accelerated moments before impact).

From where I sit, you have two options:

1. Take the car to Tesla to have them look at this. But I believe you are going to get nowhere with this as you don't have any dash cam footage and I suspect you don't have a date and time of this event (perhaps you do, I honestly don't know). There is nothing for them to do in this case (nothing to analyze).
2. Turn off AEB.

Also, get your Dash Cam set up - it would have been REALLY helpful in this.

 

[67King]

If everyone drove safe distances, then someone stopping quicker and shorter than expected would not be a safety issue for the person behind them (annoying perhaps and certainly not ideal, but not unsafe).

Average driver reaction time is 2.3 seconds. At 70MPH, that's a couple hundred feet. These cars stop from 60 in what, 120 feet? The guideline of one car length per 10MPH isn't enough, and I don't see people giving that much, anyway. Especially in parts of the country where the whole "keep right except to pass" is ignored.

People in most congested areas don't give anywhere near enough room to allow for delayed reaction time. I've seen this exact scenario unfold in my rearview mirror at a common place for collisions around here. COngested area where a merge lane comes in on the back side of a hill. Crest the hill and see cars backed up, people hit the brakes hard. In my case, I crested the hill, saw the traffic, hit the brakes, and immediately looked in the rearview mirror to see the guy behind me SLAM on the brakes, at which point I released to give as much room as I could. A few cars back, the accident happened.

 

[Paddy3101]

Average driver reaction time is 2.3 seconds. At 70MPH, that's a couple hundred feet. These cars stop from 60 in what, 120 feet? The guideline of one car length per 10MPH isn't enough, and I don't see people giving that much, anyway. Especially in parts of the country where the whole "keep right except to pass" is ignored.

People in most congested areas don't give anywhere near enough room to allow for delayed reaction time. I've seen this exact scenario unfold in my rearview mirror at a common place for collisions around here. COngested area where a merge lane comes in on the back side of a hill. Crest the hill and see cars backed up, people hit the brakes hard. In my case, I crested the hill, saw the traffic, hit the brakes, and immediately looked in the rearview mirror to see the guy behind me SLAM on the brakes, at which point I released to give as much room as I could. A few cars back, the accident happened.

Assuming car was doing 35mph, as it came to a complete stop. That's less than 1.5 seconds to a deadstop.

How long is 10feet at 35mph. Not very much.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Especially in parts of the country where the whole "keep right except to pass" is ignored.

I shoot at these people with a really big gun. An imaginary one, but it's REALLY freaking huge.

With HOV access, I am continually watching my rear view mirror

• In traffic, I am watching for motorcycles and move to the left when I see them coming (Auto Steer and I get into frequent arguments)
• In open driving, I am watching for cars going faster than me. Even if I am driving 75 in a 65, I will move over if they are going faster than me (or if it is striped that I can't go over, I may speed up)

 

[Vines]

I appreciate all the helpful feedback. I turned off AEB for about 5 minutes and then thought about this. If someone rear ends me it probably doesn't matter what they say. If I was stopped when they hit me from behind, its their fault in probably 999 of 1000 cases.

Then I turned back on AEB as in this edge case I'd rather have them rear end me and be covered, than in the weird place where I tapped the gas, the car moved and they possibly hit me into the next car.

I'm definitely not training myself to hit the accelerator "deliberately" but will try to remember when it is safe that a tap on the brakes will disengage AEB. I wonder how long it works, after a tap on the brakes, how long are the AEB features deactivated?

My dash cam is setup, my fail was not hitting the save button. I often forget in the heat of the moment to save the footage.