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I can see the headlines now.

Discussion in 'Model X' started by Gregkeys, Oct 20, 2016.

  1. Gregkeys

    Gregkeys Member

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    With the AP2 announcement I'm wondering what will happen when someone who has a tesla with AP2 hardware but only AP1 features enabled (1 camera) and gets into an accident.

    Currently the media blames most tesla accidents on autopilot regardless of the facts usually refuted by tesla with facts after the investigation.

    Now the people who have full self driving enabled will never get into accidents but people with out the features will and the media is going to blame self driving as the problem.

    The media is rigged!
     
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  2. HookBill

    HookBill Member

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    Lets build a wall so that the media will stay out. :p
     
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  3. gearchruncher

    gearchruncher Member

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    Alternately: Driver who can afford $120K car didn't pay $5,000 for safety features and kills family of 6 in their minivan.

    Once AP features are accepted as actually saftey enhancing, will it be seen as morally unacceptable to not pay for them?
     
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  4. Colby Boles

    Colby Boles Member

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    Moreover, does it become morally unacceptable for the manufacturer to not provide the already developed software features for free assuming the car comes with the hardware capabilities already installed? Imagine the public push back if all cars came with airbags but you had to pay extra to enable the airbag deployment computer in software.
     
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  5. Claypigeon

    Claypigeon Software Developer; Ironman; Model 3

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    The flip side are cars where you need to get the top of the line model to get the safety suite--not an al a carte or post purchase option. I admit it is interesting how Tesla's manufacturing efficiency decision is resulting in ethical questions.
     
  6. animorph

    animorph Member

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    Extra airbags used to be an option in some cars long ago. Software isn't free.

    Automatic emergency braking and collision avoidance are still listed as standard, even without AP. I don't think AP-less cars will have any safety disadvantage compared to AP cars when manually driving. Hopefully driving with AP does increase safety, but that's always a buyer/driver choice.
     
  7. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    And make the media pay for it! ;)
     
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  8. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    Yes, but his point is that it was justifiable to charge more for a physical difference that required different assembly procedures. The physical differences between a new Tesla with AP1 features, EAP, and Autonomy is zilch. The only difference is in the software installed. The cost of the software development will likely have been paid off by the early adopters (like myself as of today).

    It's my hope, even as someone who's looking to pay full price for all the autonomy features, that high price we pay now allows Tesla to offer autonomy or EAP safety features for free or at a very reduced cost for their lower priced cars. If Elon is going to play the ethics card when it comes to reporters spreading news of AP1 fatalities and how it inhibits adoption and progress, then there's no way to justify withholding the feature from your customers based only on a high price to flip a figurative switch.
     
  9. jspayneii

    jspayneii Member

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    This is a bit extreme. One does not correlate to the other. The media uses Tesla Autopilot to make headlines. The fact that they are developing enhanced features that they charge for is a business strategy and has nothing to do with ethics. Ultimately, given time, the options will become standard. The cost to develop isn't free.

    The only thing that makes my Nissan different is that they don't install the technology in the car if you don't purchase it that way. Tesla gives you an upgrade path to enhance your car if you desire.
     
  10. Vad42

    Vad42 Member

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    Make media great again! :cool:
     
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  11. Xminus6

    Xminus6 Member

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    "Make headlines" is just another phrase for "make money." When you boil it down the motive is still the same. People will always look at software differently than hardware. It's been shown over and over again that people don't understand the embodied value of things that are intangible. People illegally download music all the time, but those same people wouldn't steal a CD from a store.

    I think Tesla would find it easier to justify the huge price tag if the cars were physically different. Believe me, when the Model 3 starts rolling out and people get into accidents because they didn't pay for AP but the hardware was already installed on their car, there will be a lot of discussion about why people should have to be hurt just because they can't afford to activate the software. I'm not saying it's right, but it will definitely happen.

    Like I said, if he's charging early adopters a lot of money on the more expensive cars because he knows he can recover development costs faster from "us" enabling them to offer it cheaper on the mass-market car, then that would be the most ideal situation from an optics viewpoint. There are already articles about the price of EAP and Autonomy being 30% the cost of an entire Model 3 and Tesla hasn't even said that those features will cost the same on that car.
     
  12. ccutrer

    ccutrer Member

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    It'll be a difficult discussion. The safety features will be free and included (AEB, etc.). The argument could be made that "if he was driving autonomously, the collision would not have happened" but linking that to "he would have been on autonomous if he could have afforded it" is tenuous at best. Even if you can afford it, you won't always want to or be able to use it. And there are plenty of people that vocally do not want to use it. Until we start forcing people to use it legally, due to massive safety improvements, it's like saying the manufacturer is at fault because your car had cruise control disabled.
     
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  13. BluestarE3

    BluestarE3 Active Member

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    #13 BluestarE3, Oct 21, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
    Exactly. Safety features (stuff that helps reduce accidents) are included as standard. Convenience features (stuff that lets the car drive with less or no direct user interaction) are what's to be available at extra cost. To say that less wealthy people are unfairly put at greater risk because they can't afford the autonomous driving feature, and that Tesla should be expected to right this inequity, gets into the whole social and economic justice discussion. Should grocery stores be expected to sell organic produce at the same price as conventionally grown produce because less wealthy people can't afford to pay for the healthier option? If a car manufacturer offers a model that has both ICE and EV variants (e.g., VW Golf, Kia Soul, Chevy Spark), should they be expected to sell the electric version at the same price as the gasoline version because less wealthy people should not have to suffer from breathing toxic exhaust in their neighborhoods more so than wealthier people in theirs?

    If fully autonomous driving someday becomes a proven, necessary and expected safety feature, then lobby for such legislation to be enacted (as with seat belts and airbags) and for manual vehicle operation to be phased out in newly manufactured vehicles. In the meantime, the standard safety features already offered by Tesla go a long way toward helping make driving safer for all Tesla owners, even those who could only afford the "lowly" $35,000 base Model 3.
     

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