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I can't wait for the next update! Phantom braking is driving me nuts.

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
Before my last update (2021.4.21.3) phantom braking was rare, a mild annoyance more than anything if I was driving alone, a major annoyance if my wife was in the car.

Now, in broad daylight it is as hesitant as an 8 year old trying to drive while sitting on phone books to see over the dash, and pushing the pedals with his tip toes! Any approaching vehicle in the opposing lane is seen as a threat... but not a threat. The car hesitates, brakes, stops braking, brakes again, accelerates, brakes again. If I am using AP and have the TACC set to 60, and there is any traffic in oncoming lanes and I don't intervene by pressing the accelerator my speed varies between low and high 50's and never actually reaches 60 mph... and this is if it doesn't do a full on "oh crap" brake maneuver. Those are (thankfully) rare in daylight, only 1, sometimes 2 in a 26 mile commute.

And this is GOOD compared to driving at night. At night I have all of the above problem amplified. With AP active, and TACC set to 60 mph I have to manually override with the accelerator for my entire commute unless there is a long stretch with zero oncoming cars. If I can see the headlights, my foot has to be on the accelerator. Under these conditions with AP active and my foot overriding TACC on the accelerator I will have the "oh my god we are going to crash!!!" beeps at least 3 times during my 26 mile commute.

Keith
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,847
40,420
Oregon
You really only have three choices:
  • Wait for a new firmware version that improves TACC.
  • Stop using TACC.
  • Sell the car.
From what Elon has recently tweeted it is likely going to be at least a month before they release version with significant changes. (And that may only get released to people that have paid for FSD at first, it could be additional months before the release goes to everyone.)
 

GeezerSquid

Still a Geezer & Still A Squid
Jun 17, 2020
237
274
Baton Rouge, LA
I received 2021.24.4 last week and with this version and the one I had prior, I found phantom braking to not really be a problem. The times the car braked suddenly and hard seems to have more justified than in the past. Good luck with yours. I'm sure the updates are on the way to fix your issue.
 

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
had a little phantom braking, but main issue now is the car staying in the lane, especially in construction. its getting BAD

I never even try to use AP in construction zones, that is nightmare fuel!

Interesting thing I noticed this morning on my commute home, for the first 10 min I had a car in front of me and the car behaved flawlessly. Then that car pulled off and the "normal" nightmare began. I got to experimenting and while driving paranoid I went ahead and disabled emergency braking... and then 5 min later passed a pedestrian walking on the side of the road (well off of the road, no where near my lane) and the car did a full on very aggressive emergency brake event.

What The &uck does "off" mean? I got the warning that the world would end if I turned it off, confirmed that I wanted to end the world by turning it off, and it STILL performed an emergency brake event.

Keith

PS: I can't wait for HW4 to come out and for them to "finalize" (decide it is good enough) and abandon HW3. AP1 people don't have to put up with Tesla making their AP worse because Tesla pretty much ignores old hardware as soon as the new shinny thing comes along.
 

Cares

Member
Jul 23, 2018
188
161
Orange County, CA
Has anyone come from a Model 3 with radar AP to Tesla Vision and can comment? I seeing several posts about phantom breaking being a huge problem but I don't know if it's any worse than before...
 
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Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
Has anyone come from a Model 3 with radar AP to Tesla Vision and can comment? I seeing several posts about phantom breaking being a huge problem but I don't know if it's any worse than before...

The original software I had on delivery was great on my vision only car (other than speed being limited to 70 mph), phantom braking was a rare annoyance (a couple times a week), the first update also worked great and raised the speed limit on AP to 80 mph... it is this latest update (2021.4.21.3) that is a nightmare to deal with.

I never owned a radar equipped car, but other than the follow distance limit of 3 and lower speed limit on AP everything I had read about the radar equipped cars made me feel that the version of the software I had before this latest update was just as good as the radar equipped cars had, possible better.

Keith
 

alexcue

Member
Aug 5, 2020
394
252
Los Angeles
I received 2021.24.4 last week and with this version and the one I had prior, I found phantom braking to not really be a problem. The times the car braked suddenly and hard seems to have more justified than in the past. Good luck with yours. I'm sure the updates are on the way to fix your issue.

That is what I was on and didn't notice anything different personally. I drive in an out of work with it on.
 

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
Report it to the NHTSA (Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA). It's embarrassing that a basic feature like cruise control doesn't work on a $60000 car

Wait, you are saying that I shouldn't #1 wait for an update that sucks less #2 just suck it up and drive without cruise control, or #3 sell the car? But the fanboys said it is my fault!

Keith
 

BogStandard

Member
Jun 2, 2021
34
47
MN
Before my last update (2021.4.21.3) phantom braking was rare, a mild annoyance more than anything if I was driving alone, a major annoyance if my wife was in the car.

Now, in broad daylight it is as hesitant as an 8 year old trying to drive while sitting on phone books to see over the dash, and pushing the pedals with his tip toes! Any approaching vehicle in the opposing lane is seen as a threat... but not a threat. The car hesitates, brakes, stops braking, brakes again, accelerates, brakes again. If I am using AP and have the TACC set to 60, and there is any traffic in oncoming lanes and I don't intervene by pressing the accelerator my speed varies between low and high 50's and never actually reaches 60 mph... and this is if it doesn't do a full on "oh crap" brake maneuver. Those are (thankfully) rare in daylight, only 1, sometimes 2 in a 26 mile commute.

And this is GOOD compared to driving at night. At night I have all of the above problem amplified. With AP active, and TACC set to 60 mph I have to manually override with the accelerator for my entire commute unless there is a long stretch with zero oncoming cars. If I can see the headlights, my foot has to be on the accelerator. Under these conditions with AP active and my foot overriding TACC on the accelerator I will have the "oh my god we are going to crash!!!" beeps at least 3 times during my 26 mile commute.

Keith
I'm having the same exact issues. It's bad and I haven't found a good solution other than accelerator hovering or just not using TACC.
A two-way road at night is truly awful, over 50% of oncoming cars trigger a slowdown/brake or the loud "imma bout to end this mans whole (car)eer" alarm.

The original software I had on delivery was great on my vision only car (other than speed being limited to 70 mph), phantom braking was a rare annoyance (a couple times a week), the first update also worked great and raised the speed limit on AP to 80 mph... it is this latest update (2021.4.21.3) that is a nightmare to deal with.

I wish I had paid more attention, but the first 1 1/2 days I had the car from delivery with the as-delivered SW I don't recall any unintended/phantom braking/slowdown events. Either they weren't happening or were insignificant/rare enough for me to not notice while I was still overwhelmed the the whole new car experience.
 
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Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
I'm having the same exact issues. It's bad and I haven't found a good solution other than accelerator hovering or just not using TACC.
A two-way road at night is truly awful, over 50% of oncoming cars trigger a slowdown/brake or the loud "imma bout to end this mans whole (car)eer" alarm.



I wish I had paid more attention, but the first 1 1/2 days I had the car from delivery with the as-delivered SW I don't recall any unintended/phantom braking/slowdown events. Either they weren't happening or were insignificant/rare enough for me to not notice while I was still overwhelmed the the whole new car experience.

I still have not gotten an update, so still suffering from this miserable software. My current work around driving methodology:

If I am driving on a two lane road, and there is a car directly in front of me going at or near the speed I want to go, I use Auto Pilot as "normal" It follows the lead car and since it can't see cars coming from the other direction, it doesn't panic thinking they are in my lane about to have a head on collision.

If I am driving on a two lane road, without a car in front of me, I engage AP and dial the cruise control speed down to 20 mph and manually control my speed. Auto steer still works great, it is TACC that is trash.

If I am driving on a multi lane interstate divided highway it can't see oncoming cars (during the day, not sure about night), and doesn't treat them as a threat and it works almost as well as it used to before this horrible update. Still not as good as it used to be, but not nearly as bad as it is on a two lane road. I will be doing a highway night drive tonight, and I will try to remember to update this post later :)

Later,

Keith
 
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Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
Update on night driving on divided highway. Just like day driving, it is not as good as it was before this update, but not nearly as horrible as driving on a two lane road at night.

Keith
 

growler23

Member
Apr 27, 2021
20
85
Austin, TX, USA
I spent a few hours driving my radar-less 2021 Model Y this weekend. Used TACC a few times on divided highway in broad daylight, on well marked I-10 no less with light traffic. After the second massive slowdown for no reason, I had to stop using it. I'm fine without FSD, I researched enough to have not trusted its current state, but I expect TACC to work roughly as well as it does in every other car out there that has it. Software version is 2021.4.21.3. I had not noticed any unrequested slowdowns before this software update while using TACC, although I did not use it that often.
This should work. This used to work. TACC works on every major car on the road out there. This is really the first time I've been disappointed in the Model Y; she has been a fine car otherwise. I really would like a fix for this forthwith.
 

PackMan730

Member
Jul 11, 2021
313
199
Glendale CA
I noticed my car goes from 75 MPH to 55 MPH when the speed posted shows 55 MPH in certain zones such as construction zones. There is no cones or no obvious signs of construction, but the car recognizes these zones as lower MPH zones and reduces the speed.

Another time I noticed the car slowing down was when the car was doing turns that it did not feel comfortable doing such as tighter turns at fast speeds.

Are these examples of what you're referring to as phantom braking?
I anticipated the speed reduction and was very alert to what was going on so I wasn't shocked when the car reduced speed and quickly took over.
 

Fourdoor

Active Member
May 31, 2016
1,119
1,016
United States
I noticed my car goes from 75 MPH to 55 MPH when the speed posted shows 55 MPH in certain zones such as construction zones. There is no cones or no obvious signs of construction, but the car recognizes these zones as lower MPH zones and reduces the speed.

Another time I noticed the car slowing down was when the car was doing turns that it did not feel comfortable doing such as tighter turns at fast speeds.

Are these examples of what you're referring to as phantom braking?
I anticipated the speed reduction and was very alert to what was going on so I wasn't shocked when the car reduced speed and quickly took over.
Nope.

Not trying to be a dick here, but did you read this thread before asking your question? There are only 14 posts to the thread before your question. HeII, the first post describes exactly what I am talking about...

Keith
 

LastGas

Member
Aug 13, 2016
373
371
Virginia
Odd. I haven't seen phantom braking for months and yes it was a royal pain. Now I get phantom visual collision warnings, an d the car keeps going.
 

Iain

Member
Feb 5, 2020
354
814
Austin
Odd. I haven't seen phantom braking for months and yes it was a royal pain. Now I get phantom visual collision warnings, an d the car keeps going.
Yep agreed phantom braking is almost a throw back term. I can’t remember the last one I had but I have had two of these phantom collision warnings in the last few days. I look around wondering if the car saw something that I missed, but nothing. I hope next week when they are reviewI guess if my driving is good enough for the 10.1 FSD beats I don’t get dinged for collision warning messages.
 

LastGas

Member
Aug 13, 2016
373
371
Virginia
I see the phantom warnings every time I pass certain locations, places where the car can see a long distance, the road is straight, and there is no traffic. That's why I'm really looking forward to FSD.
 

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