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I did not get TACC with 6.1, should I have?

Discussion in 'Model S: User Interface' started by Evbwcaer, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    I placed my order sometime around May of 2014, ball park, and took delivery right at the end of Sept. 2014. I did not order the Tech Package, I did get the auto-pilot hardware as a surprise/bonus. (including the CC stalk)

    Until I did not get TACC with 6.1, I had all of the auto-pilot functionality that everyone, including those with the Tech Package, had in conjunction with auto-pilot sensors. (speed assist, parking sensors, lane departure warning)

    On Saturday morning I had the update notice on my touchscreen, ran the update and took the car out to try the TACC. I did not have it, after consulting the owners manual I found out that that it was only for those with the Tech Package...major bummer as I thought TACC would really be a key part of the EV experience because it would allow me to safely gain some range on long trips by following larger vehicles.

    I am wondering what you all think of this? I can see things a few ways, but the key thing to remember is that when I confirmed my order, the auto-pilot hardware was not publicly known. Those who ordered a Model S with Tech Package around the same time as me are getting TACC as an unexpected freebie, why should I not also get the same?

    A few random thoughts:
    -Which of the future auto-pilot features will I get, and what features that I have now (speed assist, lane assist, parking sensors and forward collision assist) might be taken away?

    -Do you feel that TACC should be a standard feature because of the price of the car and/or because it is specifically relevant to EV travel?

    -Could/should Tesla offer to sell me TACC? I have all the hardware, and did not have an option to buy it or decline it when I bought my car.

    -I did not order parking sensors (Tech Package was required) but I did get them, for free, as part of the auto-pilot hardware.


    I feel this situation is unique compared to other Tesla situations where people are frustrated about wanting retrofits, or advanced notice of future upgrades. I am only "asking" for the same treatment that others are getting who ordered at the same time. Additionally, my car did come with cruise control, why would I not get software updates to the cruise control system? Are non-Tech P85D's not getting torque sleep, for example?

    I have all the hardware to run TACC, I did not choose to buy TACC when I confirmed, same as those who bought the Tech Package. For some reason, they are given the upgrade for free, and I currently don't even have the chance to purchase it. 60kwh's can buy Supercharging after the fact, 40kwhs can have their remaining 20kwh unlocked after the fact, and you can even get dual chargers put in after the fact (and you had the chance to buy them up front).

    My Model S is probably a rare car in that it is non-Tech Package and was confirmed before auto-pilot existed and was one of the first to be delivered with it.

    Obviously I would like to have TACC, and I understand Tesla's need to manage features/prices/upgrades and customer expectations. I am really looking for a concrete line of logic or an historical example from Tesla in a situation like this.

    What is the bottom line, and I "entitled" to TACC or should I just be happy with the auto-pilot functionality I got and be happy?

    Thanks.
     
  2. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    You're asking if you're "entitled" to something for free? That's the question? You won the hardware lottery. There are a bunch of people who did not and their cars won't ever be TACC-enabled. You might have to pay for the upgrade, but at least you have the option.
     
  3. 1101011

    1101011 Proud TSLA/SCTY shareholder since 2012.

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    You bought what you bought.

    But I can't imagine buying a Tesla without the Tech package. To my mind, that was the point...
     
  4. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    Actually I did not, "buy what I bought" and neither did those who bought Tech Package around the same time. We confirmed our cars, with deposit, not knowing anything about auto-pilot. I even sent the full payment before I knew about auto-pilot. If that is the argument then the Tech Package people in the same timeline don't get TACC either.

    We don't need to get into a Tech Package discussion here, I bought the car for environmental reasons mainly, Tech had no appeal to me.
     
  5. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    Tesla's web site (at least today) states:

    I think that is fairly clear as to their intentions regarding this.
     
  6. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if you can "buy" this feature from Tesla since you do have the hardware. Kind of like a partial tech package upgrade. I heard that some partial upgrades like this are possible. Obviously you won't be getting a freebie, but I'd be curious to inquire Tesla directly to see if it's plausible and what the price would be.
     
  7. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    I am only making this case for vehicles such as mine, produced in that window. Obviously if you buy today, everything is spelled out and there is really no discussion.

    One potential solution to this would be for Tesla to say explicitly that the Tech Package also buys you all applicable software updates in the future, meaning that if you don't buy the Tech Package you are sort of at their mercy.

    I do think Tesla selling TACC separately, and least to the cars like mine that are outliers, would be a fair solution. People who buy Tech now won't look back at a non-Tech car getting TACC for free, and someone like me won't be frustrated that I was never given the chance to have the feature even though my car is configured for it.

    Does anybody know if non-Techs are currently shipping with the TACC stalk?

    Thanks
     
  8. Cebe

    Cebe Member

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    Tech package vs. not had hardware differences prior to auto-pilot - are there still differences? For example, is there a front camera on the non-tech cars?

    Anyway, when the hardware is the same, I can see Tesla allowing the "upgrade after the purchase" the same way they let you do the second charger or addition of supercharging - if you order it when you get the car, you pay less than ordering it after the fact. Maybe that shows up eventually for non-tech -> tech upgrade. If the hardware is different, well, different story.

    I guess, the Tesla version of "this person paid less for their Chevy than I did" is "this person got this thing for free, and I didn't". Pointless to spend a lot of time worrying about it...
     
  9. robby

    robby Member

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    I applaud Tesla's intent here but I don't understand what autopilot feature wouldn't be a safety feature. Anything that helps mitigate human fatigue and reaction times is a safety improvement. That's why insurance companies offer a discount for it.

    I don't think OP is "entitled" to anything here but I would applaud Tesla if it made this stuff standard. The more people who have these features, the safer the roads will be.
     
  10. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    I am pretty sure that I have all the hardware I need. I know that I have all of the auto-pilot sensors and camera and I have the stalk as mentioned.
     
  11. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    TACC is part of the tech package. I'm not sure I understand why you think you ought to get it with a software update if you don't have the tech package.

    Personally I think it's a bit weird that the tech package exists at all. Everything it includes ought to be included standard with the car. But upgrades like that are a great way for the manufacturer to make money, and as long as they have the option set up like that, I don't see why you'd expect anything different.

    Your example of torque sleep is different, as torque sleep is not advertised as being part of the tech package. If you order a Model S today without the tech package, it will not have TACC.
     
  12. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    TACC was not part of the Tech Package when I bought my car as was not advertised as part of any package, it did not exist. Parking sensors were only available with Tech when I bought my car, but I didn't get Tech and I have parking sensors. The points are that there are some inconsistencies.

    I do think the safety argument has legs.
     
  13. BerTX

    BerTX Member

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    My impression is that you have a one-off mistake vehicle, built during a transition time at the factory, that they don't quite know how to handle. Somehow yours was fitted with parts it was not supposed to have. In theory, you have the hardware, but the software may or may not work with your vehicle. Even if it does, it may not work in the future. If Tesla agrees to give you the TACC, then they are committing to support that in their software changes in the future, and they don't like the idea of having to do special development and testing for your vehicle every time they make a change.

    You think you have all the hardware, but you may not. THEY may not know exactly what you have. The most sensible thing for them is just to say no, since you weren't supposed to have it anyway.
     
  14. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    I disagree with this. All cars now have the new sensors. What features are enabled that make use of the new sensors is a separate question. Lane departure, speed warning, and collision warning are safety features. TACC and automatic high beams are convenience features. I would not expect Tesla to allow someone without the tech package to enable the convenience features separately. Right now it's simple: Have sensors? Have tech package? Then...

    What is unfortunate, is I think the OP is suggesting that had he known the new sensors were coming, and that the tech package was required to enable TACC, that he may have purchased it. This is just a specific example of the recurring theme of Tesla adding features mid-stream. I understand why they do it, but it repeatedly turns into poor customer experiences.
     
  15. 1101011

    1101011 Proud TSLA/SCTY shareholder since 2012.

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    I can't help but feel you've moved the goalpost. Having purchased primarily based on environmental considerations, you deliberately did not buy the tech package. But your complaint occurs as a result of updating the very package you decided wasn't important.

    You car is as environmentally significant today as when you purchased it, and still the finest car in the world...
     
  16. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    This is not a recurring theme as far as I can tell. My car has the hardware for TACC, there is no difference between my car and Tech Package cars of this vintage regarding hardware, what was purchased or what was promised regarding TACC. Can you tell me of another example that fits these criteria? Additionally, my car came with cruise control, can you tell me of another instance where a feature that a car was equipped with was not updated when an update was available in a subsequent update (not including currently produced Model S where the TACC feature was specifically called out in Tech Package).

    An example of this would be if non-Tech Package cars did not get the Smart Preconditioning feature because today it became listed as with Tech Package only.

    I appreciate all of the replies and I honestly don't know what the right objective answer is to this. I am trying to be unbiased, but would obviously like to have TACC.

    Even if it is just academic, the larger issue is something that should be addressed by Telsa.

    Here you have a situation where a software update was not delivered to my car, even though it has the feature, cruise control, it has the hardware, auto-pilot sensors, and people who have the same vintage car are getting the update, because they chose a suite of unrelated features. Why don't they only send TACC to those with the jump seats, or cold weather package? The overriding answer is probably because they are now choosing to charge a premium for this feature.

    Imagine Tesla puts out some type of SuperCharger monitoring widget in an update, bundles it with the Tech Package, and does not ship the update to existing non-Tech Model S.

    Didn't we / don't we keep hearing that the car gets better with age as software is updated?
     
  17. Weeogg

    Weeogg Member

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    I took delivery during the same narrow window of time (i.e., ordered without the tech. package but received an early autopilot hardware build). From my own limited perspective the car I took delivery of came with more features than I ordered and paid for (e.g., parking sensors, lane departure, speed limit). Hard to get upset!

    With 6.1 now enabling adaptive cruise control and, more impressive to me, navigation integrated with range estimation, I might have sprung for the tech. package originally. But, I choose not to spend this money at the time. Hard to complain about not spending (more) money.

    If TACC and Range Nav. are now available as reasonably-priced software retrofits I'll happily pay for them. If such upgrades do not exist or are too expensive then I'll invest the money and upgrade to whatever awesomeness exists in 8+ years.

    My car is due for servicing so I sent a note asking if such software retrofits are available and, if so, what they cost. I'd be grateful if anyone else can share similar information. Cheers.

    ps. I would strongly agree that TACC could be seen as a safety feature from a driver fatigue perspective.
     
  18. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    (Sorry for two posts in a row)

    This is not correct. Tech Package is not what was updated, cruise control is what was updated, and then bundled with Tech for current vehicles. It makes more sense to me to bundle TACC with Supercharging as TACC, to my mind, is most valuable in the way it can extend range over distances. Had Tesla chose to bundle TACC with Supercharging capability I would have it. There would be some 60s with Tech who did not get TACC, as an example. It is only going to get more messy.....


    My motivation for buying the car is completely irrelevant to the discussion, I mentioned it because there was an inquiry or something. If I bought it to drive it off a cliff or put it in a museum it would make no difference for the purposes of this conversation.
     
  19. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    Autopilot convenience features are part of the tech package. TACC is officially an autopilot convenience feature. That you have the sensors is irrelevant; all Model Ss are now produced with the sensors, with or without the tech package. No tech package means no tech package features. I really don't see what's difficult to understand about this.
     
  20. andrewket

    andrewket 2014 S P85DL, 2016 X P90DL (soon 100)

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    Currently TACC is less efficient, so this logic doesn't work. Even if it was more efficient, I would find bundling it with supercharging odd. It's part of autopilot which is included with the tech.
     

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