Maybe not, but like you and your paint, I view the manual seats to be "more of an excuse for Tesla to pull another" $5000 out of us. If Tesla had included power seats in the base car and just added $500 to the price, I could have bought the car I want for $44,500. As it is, if I pay $44,000 I will have the only sedan I know of at that price without power seats. They are like ugly black paint, they call out here is a cheap car. And the only reason for this is to force us to pay an extra $5000 to avoid the "ugly cheap car syndrome".
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Maybe not, but like you and your paint, I view the manual seats to be "more of an excuse for Tesla to pull another" $5000 out of us. If Tesla had included power seats in the base car and just added $500 to the price, I could have bought the car I want for $44,500. As it is, if I pay $44,000 I will have the only sedan I know of at that price without power seats. They are like ugly black paint, they call out here is a cheap car. And the only reason for this is to force us to pay an extra $5000 to avoid the "ugly cheap car syndrome".
Except that its competitors in its class also generally charge extra for power seats as well - BMW, for example. There is nothing unusual about this. BMW is more a-la-carte than Tesla, which is nice, but also costs a lot more total to get the same basic features on the SR (whether you compare PUP or non-PUP), even ignoring the whole electric drivetrain aspect, the energy savings, the tax credits, etc. Factor in energy savings, tax credits, etc and the base feature differences and even the LR comes in significantly cheaper.
And for the record, I would pay more to not have power seats with PUP. Your assumption that they're some sort of must-have is grossly wrong. I have trouble understanding why anyone wants to add extra weight and another thing that can break for something that needs to be adjusted so infrequently and is so easy to adjust manually. Let alone why someone is so obsessed with having them that they'd raise such a huge stink about them here on the forum. Take my power seats, please.
I can't even fit into the seat to adjust it properly after my wife has used the car, and manual car seats are a pain to adjust while standing outside the car. Auto adjusting seats is a big feature for me.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I just have to remember slide the seat backwards before I try to sit down.
She: long torso, short legs and arms
Me: Reversed
Sure, but I find it annoying to have to lean into the car and reach below the seat to do that, and then I still have to adjust the seat to the right place once I'm in. Everybody has different features that they value.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I thought you were saying you cannot change the seat position rather than just being inconvenienced.
As an aside, I wonder if the Model 3 will use the interior camera to identify the driver for the auto-setting. In my case that will not work well since I have to move the seat back before I slide in. Hopefully there is a default position --- mine !
WhiskySTL
Member
Yup. I'm in a loaded 335i that stickered at ~$58k. I'll be replacing that with a Model 3 costing ~$55k. The two cars are very similarly equipped in many ways... Except that the BMW has no active safety/driver's assistance features, much less anything on par with EAP. On the other hand, the BMW is faster. They are very comparable cars in many ways (except for the obvious, important matter of EV vs ICE), and the pricing is, based on my experience, right in line.
I bet you your M3 will beat it in 0-30
Its funny watching EVs race gasoline cars... even if the gas car ultimately smokes it later in the race, the EV almost always takes the lead off the line unless it gets a really bad start.
Also it's worth noting that if matching performance was your goal, if you left off EAP (which you said the BMW doesn't have), and accounting for the $3k price difference, you'd have $8k to put toward future M3 performance options.
And note in all of this, we're comparing the LR version, and not accounting for tax credits/breaks and fuel savings, where the lack of VAT will save me ~$10k+, the lack of emissions fees potentially much more, and oh our gas prices are nearly $8 per gallon
M3 is a killer buy.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I get it.We get that too
You were playing the heated steering wheel card.
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Just hold up. I agree with many comments here, but....
Power seats cost nearly nothing to add and most cars in this segment have it. The BMW 320i is the only exception, not the rule (and you mates don't realize...a 320i with power seats is only $34,445--still $500+ cheaper than a base Model 3.). It seems 95% of you have never tried to buy an entry-level luxury sedan.
Mercedes-Benz C300:
Jaguar XE:
Audi A4:
Lexus IS Turbo:
Cadillac ATS:
Infiniti Q50:
Acura TLX:
Volvo S60:
The mother-trucking Alfa Romeo Giulia:
Officially, the Model 3 is the priciest car in this segment without power seats.
It's just a silly thing to bundle in the PUP. Heated seats: sure, pay extra. A giant windshield: extra. Wood trim, extra. That's all normal. But power seats? Cheap move. Ain't nobody like to know they spent 50% over a Camry and the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to pay a few bucks for powered seats.
Why? The 25% marginnnnnnsssss. Investors rejoice. Bundled packages are a boon to margins.
Now please go debate something else; leave the damned power seats out of this because it's clear this was made for Tesla's margins and margins alone; y'all look silly otherwise.
EDIT: and this isn't a cherry-picked list, let me warn you before y'all start replying. This is literally the list of "Small Luxury Sedans" from Kelly Blue Book.
Power seats cost nearly nothing to add and most cars in this segment have it. The BMW 320i is the only exception, not the rule (and you mates don't realize...a 320i with power seats is only $34,445--still $500+ cheaper than a base Model 3.). It seems 95% of you have never tried to buy an entry-level luxury sedan.
Mercedes-Benz C300:
Jaguar XE:
Audi A4:
Lexus IS Turbo:
Cadillac ATS:
Infiniti Q50:
Acura TLX:
Volvo S60:
The mother-trucking Alfa Romeo Giulia:
Officially, the Model 3 is the priciest car in this segment without power seats.
It's just a silly thing to bundle in the PUP. Heated seats: sure, pay extra. A giant windshield: extra. Wood trim, extra. That's all normal. But power seats? Cheap move. Ain't nobody like to know they spent 50% over a Camry and the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to pay a few bucks for powered seats.
Why? The 25% marginnnnnnsssss. Investors rejoice. Bundled packages are a boon to margins.
Now please go debate something else; leave the damned power seats out of this because it's clear this was made for Tesla's margins and margins alone; y'all look silly otherwise.
EDIT: and this isn't a cherry-picked list, let me warn you before y'all start replying. This is literally the list of "Small Luxury Sedans" from Kelly Blue Book.
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There are expensive cars without power seats. They tend to be in the performance segment.
Power seats add a lot weight and remove some headroom.
Sometimes, folk don't want a heavy car that you can't sit in with a helmet on.
EDIT, the Porsche GT3 is about $145,000, and power seats are optional.
Power seats add a lot weight and remove some headroom.
Sometimes, folk don't want a heavy car that you can't sit in with a helmet on.
EDIT, the Porsche GT3 is about $145,000, and power seats are optional.
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Just hold up. I agree with many comments here, but....
Power seats cost nearly nothing to add and most cars in this segment have it. The BMW 320i is the only exception, not the rule (and you mates don't realize...a 320i with power seats is only $34,445--still $500+ cheaper than a base Model 3.). It seems 95% of you have never tried to buy an entry-level luxury sedan.
Mercedes-Benz C300:
Jaguar XE:
Audi A4:
Lexus IS Turbo:
Cadillac ATS:
Infiniti Q50:
Acura TLX:
Volvo S60:
The mother-trucking Alfa Romeo Giulia:
Officially, the Model 3 is the priciest car in this segment without power seats.
It's just a silly thing to bundle in the PUP. Heated seats: sure, pay extra. A giant windshield: extra. Wood trim, extra. That's all normal. But power seats? Cheap move. Ain't nobody like to know they spent 50% over a Camry and the manufacturer couldn't be bothered to pay a few bucks for powered seats.
Why? The 25% marginnnnnnsssss. Investors rejoice. Bundled packages are a boon to margins.
Now please go debate something else; leave the damned power seats out of this because it's clear this was made for Tesla's margins and margins alone; y'all look silly otherwise.
EDIT: and this isn't a cherry-picked list, let me warn you before y'all start replying. This is literally the list of "Small Luxury Sedans" from Kelly Blue Book.
I like how you point out that the base BMW is a little less expensive than the 3, but fail to mention the base price of many of the cars you mention that include power seats are more than the 3 (in fact, the price of the Mercedes is more than the price of the Model 3 with power seats). Yes, not including power seats in the base Model is slightly cheap, but not way out of line.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Do you have much doubt that the Tesla powertrain is still more expensive than the ICE counterparts you listed ?
The difference will be evident in some of the options.
Or so it seems to me.
I like how you still haven't visited the Mercedes website. Were any of you ever in the luxury car market before Tesla? Mercedes includes the transportation fee.
Even the Mercedes is right up there.Model 3 w/ power seats: $41,200 ($1200 transportation fee)
Mercedes Benz C300 w/ power seats: $41, 245 ($995 transportation fee)
Who said "way out of line"? It's just a cheap silly move that bucks the power seat trend in the entry luxury market and shows Tesla's focus on margins and its relative newness (why can't that be optioned separately, like BMW did? Because Tesla is new and wants big margins).
It's definitely cheap to consumers and a cheap look for Tesla.
As a general note, the Model 3 starts at $36,200 (most other manufacturers add the transportation fee to your base-price once you start the configurator, but we can't do that with the Model 3 now). And yes, everyone will pay the transportation fee, even if you live inside the factory.
Sure, expensive cars exist without power seats---just not in this entry luxury segment. And it seems power seats alone only weigh an extra 7-8 lbs for the threads and motor; do you have alternative data?
The headroom: true.
Probably, yes, the Tesla drivetrain drives up costs....but so does a 25% margin! Most of these ICE counterparts also aren't trying to make a 25% margin on every car. Porsche's 15% margin was "god-like". Tesla isn't doing anything too special to get 25% margins; it's just bundling ostensibly standard features into a $5000 options package.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Tesla is going to spend some of that 25% on charging infrastructure, service infrastructure, and warranty repairs for leading edge technology.I like how you still haven't visited the Mercedes website. Were any of you ever in the luxury car market before Tesla? Mercedes includes the transportation fee.
Model 3 w/ power seats: $41,200 ($1200 transportation fee)
Mercedes Benz C300 w/ power seats: $41, 245 ($995 transportation fee)
Who said "way out of line"? It's just a cheap silly move that bucks the power seat trend in the entry luxury market and shows Tesla's focus on margins and its relative newness (why can't that be optioned separately, like BMW did? Because Tesla is new and wants big margins).
It's definitely cheap to consumers and a cheap look for Tesla.
As a general note, the Model 3 starts at $36,200 (most other manufacturers add the transportation fee to your base-price once you start the configurator, but we can't do that with the Model 3 now). And yes, everyone will pay the transportation fee, even if you live inside the factory.
Sure, expensive cars exist without power seats---just not in this entry luxury segment. And it seems power seats alone only weigh an extra 7-8 lbs for the threads and motor; do you have alternative data?
The headroom: true.
Probably, yes, the Tesla drivetrain drives up costs....but so does a 25% margin! Most of these ICE counterparts also aren't trying to make a 25% margin on every car. Porsche's 15% margin was "god-like". Tesla isn't doing anything too special to get 25% margins; it's just bundling ostensibly standard features into a $5000 options package.
While we drive a superior drivetrain, save on fuel, and advance sustainable transport.
@ikjadoon Just one thing, from what we have seen the destination charge for the Model 3 is $1,000 not $1,200. So the starting price is $36,000. So that makes it $245 cheaper than the Mercedes.
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