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I don't even know what to say about this (John Deere Ukranian firmware)

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by neroden, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    • Informative x 5
  2. kenliles

    kenliles Active Member

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    related from a different mother

    Hackers attempt to extort Apple with threat to remotely wipe iPhones, iPads

    gettin' pretty crazy out there - farming, elections, extortion-- somebody stop the world I want to get off
     
    • Funny x 1
  3. strider

    strider Active Member

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    JD also keeps all the logs regarding tractor operation, soil measurements, planting schedules, etc. Sounds familiar....
     
  4. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    This is interesting. My first reaction is that the manufacturer maintaining control over their product after it's sold isn't right. My next reaction, considering the forums where this is posted, is that it sounds awfully similar to how Tesla behaves. I haven't thought much about it, and I'd argue that there is a big and important difference between what JD is doing and what Tesla has been doing.

    More thinking has me thinking, there is still a big difference, and maybe it's not as big of a difference as a I first thought.


    I don't have a conclusion or know what I think yet for Tesla. For JD, if I were in the market for a tractor, the software restriction they're doing would take them off my list. And might take me completely out of the market if that's becoming the norm all around. And if I really needed a tractor, it'd probably put me in the market for something really old :)

    I appreciate the posted article and the additional thinking. The only thing I can say with confidence about Tesla, is that the significant black cloud I can see on Tesla's horizon is how they're doing service / support today. I take my car to tire dealerships for tire replacements, and I'll happily change wiper blades myself. Other than that, it's all Tesla all the time. At Roadster scale that doesn't really bother me (call it 10^3 scale). At 10^5 or 10^6 annual scale, this looks like a mess. Even if the average Tesla needs 1/10th of the maintenance work of a comparable ICE.


    A different issue - not one I've particularly worried about nor am I worried about now (but which could change) - is how Tesla handles the data being collected from it's S/X (and future 3) fleet. If that data is anonymized on receipt so that they lose the ability to track it back to an individual car and or driver, then I'm particularly happy about that. If the data isn't anonymized, then Tesla is also doubling as a person tracker (in the form of the car being driven), and subject to a stream of warrants / discovery. How Tesla responds to the use of that data could become a business building problem.


    For me, nothing changes yet. But I'll be keeping an eye out in this space and hope Tesla continues proving me right. Service and how the company uses collected data are two opportunities to prove me wrong, and for me today, represent the best opportunities I can identify that would lead me to close my long term buy-and-hold position.
     
  5. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    Diesel engine horsepower options are often controlled through the software but supported by hard parts.
    If you buy a 245HP it has the same basic 9.0L inline turbo diesel as the 400HP model does.

    Putting the 400HP program into the 245HP tractor can break driveline parts or damage the turbochargers if the 400 gets bigger chargers (I believe it does).
     
  6. RandyS

    RandyS Fan of Elon

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  7. EldestOyster

    EldestOyster Member

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    It's all too familiar. So then we have to ask, "What if JD sold an all-electric tractor, that at the end of the day, would wash itself off, and go park itself in the barn...?" It once again comes down to, "What rights am I willing to give up, in order to own a compelling product such as this?"
     
  8. adiggs

    adiggs Active Member

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    You're so right @EldestOyster . And I want an all-electric tractor (and probably more importantly, an actual USE for an all-electric tractor) in the worst way. I'd hate to have to make that choice.

    If my livelihood were dependent on it, I'd even more hate to make that choice. And whatever choice I made, I'd be actively looking for an alternative.
     
  9. McRat

    McRat Active Member

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    These guys (I know some) are just turning up the power which increases emissions. Should emission defeats be allowed for farm use? If so, VW needs to get in the tractor business.

    This is what started it all:

    New Diesel Emissions Standards to Affect Farmers — Ag News from NDSU
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. DMC-Orangeville

    DMC-Orangeville 85D and John Deere 5100E

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    ...and JD is working on it....
    John Deere now makes better EVs than most auto companies.
     
  11. schonelucht

    schonelucht Active Member

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    You know Tesla is already today prohibiting users who bought FSD to use it in a ride sharing network other than Tesla's own network?
     
  12. MitchJi

    MitchJi Trying to learn kindness, patience & forgiveness

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    I'm not worried about this.

    The difference between Tesla and everyone else is that Tesla isn't attempting to maximize their profits on service. Nobody else is trying to not make a profit from service.
     

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