I don't understand how NoA is supposed to work

[Rocinante777]

We have a 2023 Model S. We bought EAP, but not FSD. It's on 2023.2.12

I've tried playing around Navigate on Autopilot, and I don't think I understand how it is supposed to work. I've got "require confirmation for lane changes" turned off. When the car wants to changes, sometimes it just does it. But other times, it signals the lane change, waits for an opening, then does...nothing. It shows the lane change target position, but doesn't execute the change, even though it is wide open. It even chimes multiple times to make sure I know it wants to change, but it just doesn't do it.

This evening, I finally noticed the (small print) text asking me to apply a light steering force to the yoke to make the change. Sometimes. But not all the time; sometimes it just does it. It's inconsistent, and I haven't figured the pattern out yet.

How is it supposed to work?

 

[Tam]

We have a 2023 Model S. We bought EAP, but not FSD. It's on 2023.2.12

I've tried playing around Navigate on Autopilot, and I don't think I understand how it is supposed to work. I've got "require confirmation for lane changes" turned off. When the car wants to changes, sometimes it just does it. But other times, it signals the lane change, waits for an opening, then does...nothing. It shows the lane change target position, but doesn't execute the change, even though it is wide open. It even chimes multiple times to make sure I know it wants to change, but it just doesn't do it.

This evening, I finally noticed the (small print) text asking me to apply a light steering force to the yoke to make the change. Sometimes. But not all the time; sometimes it just does it. It's inconsistent, and I haven't figured the pattern out yet.

How is it supposed to work?

Things in Tesla work sometimes and not other times. It's called beta.

Auto Lane Change still requires a detection of counter-torque from humans on the steering to complete the automation.

 

[TresLA]

It requires “knowing” that you’re holding onto the steering wheel (aka applying slight torque) before it will perform the auto lane change.

 

[JulienW]

It will not change lanes unless you torque the wheel for conformation or manually turn on the signal light. This is likely your confusion. Sometimes you are holding the wheel hard enough to apply torque and confirm the lane change and other times you aren't.

 

[VanFriscia]

I will add, the wheel torque thing is annoying but it gets better the more you get a feel for what it wants. Although, I've never used the yoke...I imagine that might make it worse.

 

[RTPEV]

My wife has a real hard time with her (new to her) Model Y and the steering wheel nag. It either nags her, or she yanks it out of Autosteer. She can't quite find the middle ground.

I have never had an issue with this. She says it's because I've had more experience with it, but I don't recall ever having an issue with it. It seems to be very frustrating to her, so I understand the temptation to think that it's just being "Tesla" and inconsistent.

As others have said, NoA lane changes do require positive indication that you are paying attention prior to an automatic lane change (even when you have it set to change lanes without confirmation), and the method by which it does this is through sensing torque on the wheel. You may just need some more practice to find that sweet spot between not enough and too much torque.

In my case I am constantly applying a slight amount of torque on the wheel (part of this is because I've always felt the car is slightly to the left in the lane so I apply a bit of right hand force--mainly because it makes me feel better). Others tend not to apply any force at all except when nagged or needing to let NoA know it's okay to change lanes. Maybe the sudden application of torque makes it more difficult to find that sweet spot. Try a constantly application of torque until you can consistently keep it in that sweet spot and you should have a better experience. (the way that sounds makes it sound like it's really difficult and takes practice, but I really don't think it does--like I said, I don't think it took me more than 30 minutes of highway driving at the most to get the hang of it).

 

[Rocinante777]

It will not change lanes unless you torque the wheel for conformation or manually turn on the signal light. This is likely your confusion. Sometimes you are holding the wheel hard enough to apply torque and confirm the lane change and other times you aren't.

I guess my confusion is around the fact that there is a "require confirmation" option that I turned off, but it still requires confirmation. Just a different kind of confirmation.

 

[RTPEV]

I guess my confusion is around the fact that there is a "require confirmation" option that I turned off, but it still requires confirmation. Just a different kind of confirmation.

Yes, there are two "confirmations".

The one that you turned off is the one that asks you to confirm that you actually want to do the lane change that NoA wants to do (it mostly makes good choices, but sometimes not).

The other is a confirmation that you are actually paying attention and can double check that auto lane change is not doing something stupid and that you won't be startled by the car suddenly changing lanes. You cannot disable that one.

 

[Rocinante777]

My wife has a real hard time with her (new to her) Model Y and the steering wheel nag. It either nags her, or she yanks it out of Autosteer. She can't quite find the middle ground.

I have never had an issue with this. She says it's because I've had more experience with it, but I don't recall ever having an issue with it. It seems to be very frustrating to her, so I understand the temptation to think that it's just being "Tesla" and inconsistent.

As others have said, NoA lane changes do require positive indication that you are paying attention prior to an automatic lane change (even when you have it set to change lanes without confirmation), and the method by which it does this is through sensing torque on the wheel. You may just need some more practice to find that sweet spot between not enough and too much torque.

In my case I am constantly applying a slight amount of torque on the wheel (part of this is because I've always felt the car is slightly to the left in the lane so I apply a bit of right hand force--mainly because it makes me feel better). Others tend not to apply any force at all except when nagged or needing to let NoA know it's okay to change lanes. Maybe the sudden application of torque makes it more difficult to find that sweet spot. Try a constantly application of torque until you can consistently keep it in that sweet spot and you should have a better experience. (the way that sounds makes it sound like it's really difficult and takes practice, but I really don't think it does--like I said, I don't think it took me more than 30 minutes of highway driving at the most to get the hang of it).

I don't think it's just checking that my hands are on the wheel before the change. It seems to be asking for permission. It seems to want considerably more torque than the normal hands-on-wheel check, and in the direction of the change. At least, I assume that it knows my hands are on the wheel due to the fact I have not hand nags for some time prior to the lane changes.

I've also had a hard time with getting the torque right in general, but it getting easier with practice. One of my issues is that our BMW M340i allows subtle steering inputs, e.g. when I think the car is crowding a vehicle in the next lane, I can gently steer away. Doing that in the Tesla cancels autopilot--and the Tesla _really_ likes to crowd the lane to the right. So I have some unlearning to do.

I also think the yoke makes this harder because the additional leverage. I have to work to avoid the weight of my arm canceling autopilot.

 

[EVRider-FL]

I've mostly kept lane change confirmations on, but I have an S with stalks, so it's easier to confirm with the stalk than tugging the wheel (in my opinion). When I tried disabling confirmations in my wife's 3, I found it was easy to accidentally disengage Autosteer when tugging the wheel, so I changed it back.

 

[Rocinante777]

One other thing that makes this confusing on the Mod S is knowing where the car expects me to look for information. the central display tells me a lane change is coming up, the instrument display shows where it wants to change and surrounding traffic, and a text message on the bottom of the instrument display tell me what I need do. I wear progressive lens glasses which only allow me to focus on one of those things at a time. Tesla could use more research around putting info where your eyes are likely to already be looking. (Which in my case is usually out the windshield at traffic)

I have had other instances of "why is the car making <whatever noise> at me" and looking around to find a message, if there is one at all.

This car is just begging for an HUD.

 

[RTPEV]

One other thing that makes this confusing on the Mod S is knowing where the car expects me to look for information. the central display tells me a lane change is coming up, the instrument display shows where it wants to change and surrounding traffic, and a text message on the bottom of the instrument display tell me what I need do. I wear progressive lens glasses which only allow me to focus on one of those things at a time. Tesla could use more research around putting info where your eyes are likely to already be looking. (Which in my case is usually out the windshield at traffic)

I have had other instances of "why is the car making <whatever noise> at me" and looking around to find a message, if there is one at all.

This car is just begging for an HUD.

I don't disagree with its needing a better way to communicate with you, but this too gets better with practice. When I drive with NoA on (without confirmation), I hear the chime, feel the wheel shake, and then hear the turn signal turn on, so I pretty much intuitively know what it's doing. I do perhaps glance at the turn signal indicator to determine WHICH lane it's pulling into (sometimes it goes to the right when you are expecting it to go to the left, and believe me, this is a bit disorienting when it happens and the car goes to the right when you are expecting it to go to the left). Eventually you just get used to its behavior and can determine what it's beeping about.

Just wait until you get a software update and they change the location of everything you've learned to look at!

 

[Supcom]

We have a 2023 Model S. We bought EAP, but not FSD. It's on 2023.2.12

I've tried playing around Navigate on Autopilot, and I don't think I understand how it is supposed to work. I've got "require confirmation for lane changes" turned off. When the car wants to changes, sometimes it just does it. But other times, it signals the lane change, waits for an opening, then does...nothing. It shows the lane change target position, but doesn't execute the change, even though it is wide open. It even chimes multiple times to make sure I know it wants to change, but it just doesn't do it.

This evening, I finally noticed the (small print) text asking me to apply a light steering force to the yoke to make the change. Sometimes. But not all the time; sometimes it just does it. It's inconsistent, and I haven't figured the pattern out yet.

How is it supposed to work?

Sometimes the car changes it's mind.

 

[clydeiii]

OP, please have second party take a video of you driving, upload to youtube, then post here. We can more accurately assess problem with video.

 

[TresLA]

I guess my confusion is around the fact that there is a "require confirmation" option that I turned off, but it still requires confirmation. Just a different kind of confirmation.

Providing slight torque to the steering wheel is considered not a confirmation. It's an expected constant input Tesla requires to "ensure" you're paying attention. Owners may view it as an additional confirmation only if we aren't providing that constant slight torque. If we are using the system as intended (hand is always on the wheel providing constant slight torque), then no there is no confirmation needed for the car to automatically turn on the turn signal, check for safety/clearance, and perform the lane change on its own.

When you use the setting to require confirmation, you have to actively allow the lane change suggested on the display by either pushing the left stalk in the same turn-signal direction as the requested lane change, or you have to push down (only one step) on the right AP stalk (Model 3/Y). Model S stalks are slightly different, but same idea.

 

[Rocinante777]

Providing slight torque to the steering wheel is considered not a confirmation. It's an expected constant input Tesla requires to "ensure" you're paying attention. Owners may view it as an additional confirmation only if we aren't providing that constant slight torque. If we are using the system as intended (hand is always on the wheel providing constant slight torque), then no there is no confirmation needed for the car to automatically turn on the turn signal, check for safety/clearance, and perform the lane change on its own.

When you use the setting to require confirmation, you have to actively allow the lane change suggested on the display by either pushing the left stalk in the same turn-signal direction as the requested lane change, or you have to push down (only one step) on the right AP stalk (Model 3/Y). Model S stalks are slightly different, but same idea.

To be clear, this appears to something beyond the "hand-on-wheel" test. It makes me enter a non-trivial steering input. well beyond the torque needed to avoid the nags while lane-keeping. In all the cases I noticed, I had had hands on steering wheel for several minutes prior to the lane change request with no nags.