I have a 90D. No one I know feels bad for me because of it, and I feel lucky to have it. Thanks for your sympathy though. 
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I feed bad for all those 90D owners
- Thread starter BestRadar
- Start date
So they should wait until the next "model year" (hint: there's no such thing with Tesla) to improve, when it could be ready many months earlier? Just so a current owner can say he has the latest and greatest a little while longer? Sorry, I like Tesla's idea of improving the car whenever they can.
This is what disrupting an industry looks like. Other car makers release updates annually because they have lost interest in meaningful innovation
mspohr
Well-Known Member
You think you should be pitied? How about me?
I have a 2.5 year old 85D with 50,000 miles.
Poor me. Only AP1 (which just keeps getting better to the point where I can use it most of the time). All wheel drive gives flawless handling on dry, wet and even snow covered roads (like yesterday here). Smooth, quiet comfortable ride. Free Supercharging. (I took four friends 65 miles up to Plumas-Eureka Park for a hike last week. They were all drooling with envy and loved the car.)
Free Tesla smile every time I drive.
Please pity my miserable life.
I have a 2.5 year old 85D with 50,000 miles.
Poor me. Only AP1 (which just keeps getting better to the point where I can use it most of the time). All wheel drive gives flawless handling on dry, wet and even snow covered roads (like yesterday here). Smooth, quiet comfortable ride. Free Supercharging. (I took four friends 65 miles up to Plumas-Eureka Park for a hike last week. They were all drooling with envy and loved the car.)
Free Tesla smile every time I drive.
Please pity my miserable life.
whttiger25
Member
I bought my 100D in April, right before they increased the price $2500 and forced inclusion of air suspension. And, they had just added the power liftgate as standard. So, I got my 100D for $5k less than I would have had to pay the following week! My timing was great, right?
Well, just a few months later, they basically rolled the entire premium package minus the air filters into the base for free, improved performance 0.1s, and then this month, dropped the price $3.5k. So, now for effectively $1.5k more than I paid, I could get all the premium package features for free, on a faster car, plus air suspension, which I didn't really want, but would see the value of for $1.5k including all the other aforementioned things.
So, I felt a few moments of frustration. However, my plan was always to keep this car a minimum of 8 years, hopefully longer. What would I expect? And, do I love the car? Yes. Does it meet all my needs? Yes. Lighted door handles and ambient lighting? Nifty but no real impact on my experience. Do I really care about fog lights and cornering lights? No...they werent' nearly as good as the cornering lights on my 328i anyway, and it's hardly ever foggy here.
Well, just a few months later, they basically rolled the entire premium package minus the air filters into the base for free, improved performance 0.1s, and then this month, dropped the price $3.5k. So, now for effectively $1.5k more than I paid, I could get all the premium package features for free, on a faster car, plus air suspension, which I didn't really want, but would see the value of for $1.5k including all the other aforementioned things.
So, I felt a few moments of frustration. However, my plan was always to keep this car a minimum of 8 years, hopefully longer. What would I expect? And, do I love the car? Yes. Does it meet all my needs? Yes. Lighted door handles and ambient lighting? Nifty but no real impact on my experience. Do I really care about fog lights and cornering lights? No...they werent' nearly as good as the cornering lights on my 328i anyway, and it's hardly ever foggy here.
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i can see both sides to this... please keep the innovation coming. But this example is mild compared to what some people have experienced at the hands of innovation. Just be glad you did not purchase a P85+ in July of 2014 for 125-130k... 2 months later there is the P85D that is a full second faster, with AP1 for essentially the same price. P85+ values went way down shortly thereafter ...
But here are 2 things to consider.
1. To my knowledge Tesla is the only car in the world that gets updates and improvements after you purchase it. As long as the hardware supports it you automatically get the latest tweaks to the car. (Creep is a perfect example)
2. Consider being on the flip side and buying used, That hit that P85+ owners took in depreciation is what I took full advantage of. Yes I am a couple steps behind on technology that i would rarely if ever use in the first place .but I bought a P85+ for about 55% of the original sticker price at 22 months old... Now I got an AMAZING DEAL but it is a way to offset your issue and use it to your advantage. And by the way it is just as amazing as any other Tesla... In fact I think the + is the most under appreciated features ever offered,
that being said, yes I saw a person at the service center buying an inventory 75D and with the "showroom" end of quarter discount and the tax credit the guy drove away with a AP2 car that has the same acceleration as mine. for under 70K... Yes that is a little troubling but then I drove away and fell in love with mine like i do every time i drive it..and 2 years from now I will love my P90D that I will buy for half price as well.. LOL
Lastly whenever you get the "top of the line" model you are opening yourself up to far more depreciation than someone that gets a less expensive version. This is no different than any other brand of vehicle. So I say if you love your car keep it and don't worry about it... Just enjoy it...
But here are 2 things to consider.
1. To my knowledge Tesla is the only car in the world that gets updates and improvements after you purchase it. As long as the hardware supports it you automatically get the latest tweaks to the car. (Creep is a perfect example)
2. Consider being on the flip side and buying used, That hit that P85+ owners took in depreciation is what I took full advantage of. Yes I am a couple steps behind on technology that i would rarely if ever use in the first place .but I bought a P85+ for about 55% of the original sticker price at 22 months old... Now I got an AMAZING DEAL but it is a way to offset your issue and use it to your advantage. And by the way it is just as amazing as any other Tesla... In fact I think the + is the most under appreciated features ever offered,
that being said, yes I saw a person at the service center buying an inventory 75D and with the "showroom" end of quarter discount and the tax credit the guy drove away with a AP2 car that has the same acceleration as mine. for under 70K... Yes that is a little troubling but then I drove away and fell in love with mine like i do every time i drive it..and 2 years from now I will love my P90D that I will buy for half price as well.. LOL
Lastly whenever you get the "top of the line" model you are opening yourself up to far more depreciation than someone that gets a less expensive version. This is no different than any other brand of vehicle. So I say if you love your car keep it and don't worry about it... Just enjoy it...
BestRadar confirms that the theory illustrated by monkeys in the video applies to humans:
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Most of Tesla's changes are not meaningful innovation, though.
They are sales and logistics optimizations. Changing prices, packs, discontinuing and continuing old features.
Since a year ago (AP2) there is no innovation in a Model X for example, beyond new front radar and some AP2 optimizations. And a new seat option. The top of the line six seater is basically just a worse car.
Many discontinued features instead like Alcantara dash, seat ventilation, free Supercharging, adaptive spoiler, discontinued wheels and trims...
Price has changed many times up and down...
How is this innovation?
No, most of it is sales and logistics optimization...
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Tesla also does "decontenting" over time... which is kinda cheapening the car.
Not so much in the tech areas, but look at the "car" parts:
But they also add or improve car content as well:
I guess all manufactures play the balancing act game of holding out for pricey options that get blended into base over time, as the car design lifecycle ages and market saturation goes up. Gotta keep selling 'em!
Not so much in the tech areas, but look at the "car" parts:
- Delete more hood liner with mating seal for frunk storage bin.
- Delete second brake caliper for rear parking.
- Rear caliper size shrinkage, is it still Brembo?
- Substitute plastic front chassis component support members instead of aluminum.
- Substitute black plastic lower trim pieces that used to be chrome.
- Shrunk storage bin space for no good reason on RWD cars. Shrunk again.
- on-board charger maximum Amperage reduction
- Delete second on-board charger option
But they also add or improve car content as well:
- 4-way reporting TPMS instead of general report
- glass roof standard
- air suspension standard
- power lift rear gate standard
I guess all manufactures play the balancing act game of holding out for pricey options that get blended into base over time, as the car design lifecycle ages and market saturation goes up. Gotta keep selling 'em!
This is my point what innovation has there been in the 9 months I have owned this car? Nothing. All they have managed to to is give more stuff away to try to satisfy the dropping sales. A person pays for a $1500 glass roof and now they give it away for free.... Where is the innovation in that? Free Supercharging if you order before 12/31... Whoops, Lets bring that back for Q1, Why did you pay for that high rate charger... Innovation lets include it for free now. Where is all the innovation? I chose the 90D because I wanted the better 0-60 times... Now they give enable the 75D to have similar performance for $20k less.. Not innovation just giving more features away cheaper and taking away the benefits we had in the higher end bundles that we paid for.
I am still waiting for my AP2 to work as expected and my FSD to come to life but .. Maybe it wont since they have now moved on to AP 2.5. Innovation... How about giving me what I paid for before they actually innovate something new? Where are my Automatic Wipers? When are they going to enable emergency braking at highway speeds? Would also love for my car to pull out of the driveway by again we got a half baked summon option that I can only use as a toy and make my car go forward and backward 20ft.
The only thing I have seen is the prices going down and new customers getting more features for free that I had paid for.
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Sawyer8888
Member
I think most of us who purchased a Tesla or anything related to quickly-advancing technology feel what you do to some degree.
I do agree with your point in that some features not tied to electronics, such as the glass roof, should still have a cost instead of being included. Unfortunately that is how Tesla operates and it does leave a bad taste in the mouth of those who came first.
It was a bit troublesome to read so many condescending comments in response to your concern.
Tesla is unique in its rapid advancement, so the pain of seeing more for less happens in greater frequency.
I certainly feel bad about not getting the powered liftgate as a standard feature. But when I put things into perspective, I don't feel as bad, but I still feel it.
The fix in the car industry is to lease. That way you can be guaranteed to get the latest and greatest every 2 or 3 years.
For now, to those many non-Tesla owners who know the company exists, my MS60 still looks to them like it is the fastest car in the universe that can also drive itself to Mars and back.
That makes me feel better.
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Rapid change. It is not always advancement.
Mostly just price and pack changes to keep sales moving and appease logistics optimizations.
If we'd exclude all non-feature improvements, we'd actually see that Teslas change very little and very slowly.
Most of the change is just manic optimization that makes buying Tesla a very random experience.
whttiger25
Member
It also makes it very hard to sites like kbb.com to come up with appropriate UI's and valuations for Teslas by model year.
I guess we'd be at least more OK with Tesla rolling out innovations quickly - but that is not actually what they are doing.
They are changing everything all the time with very short-term thinking, mostly just changing pricing, features, packs, logistical considerations, not actually introducing advancements for the customer. The change, drop, re-pack, re-price, for better, for worse... very little of it is actual advancement.
I understand this is market dependent, but my Model S lost more of its value in 2+ years than my Audi A8 did in 4+, both in percentages and absolute figures. The depreciation was, for whatever reason (possibly in part bad trade-ins offered by Tesla in general), massive.
Sawyer8888
Member
Rough crowd.
I think the OP's point is being missed.
Features unrelated to technology are being included as standard now as the OP and @AnxietyRanger have pointed out. That hurts. I get it. There's no innovation in that.
Although acceleration times will improve as technology improves. So I think the OP is kind of assuming that acceleration and some other things that have improved, that are now included on models below 90, are independent of technological advancements. At least that is what I have gathered.
Instead of bashing the OP, try to offer some perspective and insight in a positive manner.
Irishpilot
Member
I've never bought a new car before my Tesla. I bought them in cash, fixed them up and sold a few for some profit. I agree that buying a new car from any manufacturer is a terrible monitary investment. However, you made a choice to be an early adopter and are helping force a oil-laced 20th century industry into the 21st century.
For those reading who stress about the cost of a Model S, wait for the 3, or if you want to minimize monitary loss, buy a used Leaf as most of the depreciation has occurred and you are still supporting electric.
For me, I plan to drive the wheels off mine and keep it nice so that in 10 years when it's worth 1/8th the price, my family will have great memories attached to our first electric car.
For those reading who stress about the cost of a Model S, wait for the 3, or if you want to minimize monitary loss, buy a used Leaf as most of the depreciation has occurred and you are still supporting electric.
For me, I plan to drive the wheels off mine and keep it nice so that in 10 years when it's worth 1/8th the price, my family will have great memories attached to our first electric car.
I will agree that some of the minor changes are not very innovatively aggressive however there have been many major innovations along the way from the introduction of the D models to larger/better batteries, to ap1 and the "botched" ap2. my original '14 s 85 has been rendered a functionally obsolete vehicle.
I gather you did not read my posts. I am advocating that they shop giving *sugar* away for free that previous customers had to pay for. Progress is not continuing to give more stuff away to keep enticing new customers while screwing old customers that paid for stuff. Just like customers that paid $7500 to unlock their 75kw batteries and then they dropped it to $2500 for others. This is not innovation.
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