I feed bad for all those 90D owners

[Ghosty]

Would you really advocate for the old archaic traditional car sale? You know, the one where even today you find cars with "CD Players." Only a couple of years ago did car manufacturers include USB as standard. Some try to charge you an arm and a leg b/c it has USB.

No, we don't want to go back to that archaic system where they make you wait years for new technology. By the time car manufacturers made CD players standard equipment - USB was far and advanced. No thank you! Just no!!!

 

[Carl]

Why not sell the Tesla and buy the latest Lexus or Audi? With a bit of luck, there will be no OTA updates (you will get navigation updates if you pay for the annually released DVD's), so your car will remain the same until Lexus/Audi does a refresh (generally after 2 years) or has a "new" model (after 4 years). Great resale value after three years, right?

Oh but wait: what would happen to the retail price of a that s/h Audi A7/Lexus GS if Tesla in the meanwhile managed to make a much better car for a lot less money, and always getting better via OTA updates? Hmmm, wouldn't that both affect the s/h resale price of a Tesla and that of an Audi A7/Lexus GS in the same way? (or perhaps even less with a Tesla, given the OTA updates?).

Could be, I think.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Would you really advocate for the old archaic traditional car sale? You know, the one where even today you find cars with "CD Players." Only a couple of years ago did car manufacturers include USB as standard. Some try to charge you an arm and a leg b/c it has USB.

No, we don't want to go back to that archaic system where they make you wait years for new technology. By the time car manufacturers made CD players standard equipment - USB was far and advanced. No thank you! Just no!!!

Nobody is suggesting that. Tesla though is actually quite slow in adding many such things...

But Tesla is just so extreme in adding and removing the features they do have and changing pricing etc. many times each quarter.

Is this manic pace really the optimal disruption? I would argue it is not for the customer, because planning a purchase becomes excessively hard.

 

[johnster007]

In less than one year of ownership (9 months) and less than $8k miles my $113k 90D Model S seems like a terrible purchase and would be worth a fraction of what it cost. Today you can get a 75D brand new (Shipping with 85k Batteries installed) for $20k less fully loaded and fully charge it and get the same daily mileage.

I dont like the way Tesla keeps adding value to existing models to entice new users while continuing to devalue their existing customers. There is no good time to purchase a Model S or Model X because the minute you get it something you paid for will be given away for free to the next buyer.

Whether is a higher speed charger or full glass roof it seems the longer you wait to make a purchase the better it is. Heck I bought the 90D and right after picking it up the 100D came out and 3 months later the 90D was discontinued. Its crazy how they make so many changes and your brand new car can be discontinued a few months after you get it.

Did I miss something?--Is there any evidence of 75Ds shipping in the United States with 85kWh batteries? All the evidence I see of deliveries are 75s.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why not sell the Tesla and buy the latest Lexus or Audi? With a bit of luck, there will be no OTA updates (you will get navigation updates if you pay for the annually released DVD's), so your car will remain the same until Lexus/Audi does a refresh (generally after 2 years) or has a "new" model (after 4 years). Great resale value after three years, right?

Audi does refreshes usually at 3-4 year mark and models every 6-8 years. Of course around week 22 on manufacturing every year the model year changes and I think week 43 are when they do the smaller bi-annual change.

I would be quite happy with Tesla doing one big change twice a year for example. Would allow a rapid pace but also for some planning for those who care. Today they change things 2-6 times each quarter and IMO that's excessive.

My Audi A8 had better resale value after 4+ years than my Model S had after 2+ years. Both were similarly priced, Model S just lost its value almost twice the pace...

 

[malcolm]

Nope. The D/AP announcemnet was not a model-year, not by nature nor by timing.

I did not say make them annual. I said try grouping them a little at least. Like for example during 2016, why not group AP2 and P100D. But now, Tesla wanted the P100D to be a demand lever in Q3...

I mean there are all kinds of middle roads Tesla could take, instead of changing everything, all the time...

But a moving target is harder to hit. That's what makes all these "Tesla killer due out in 2018" announcements so funny. They can only aim at the current vehicle.

The problem with disrupting an old industry is that one of the things which has to be disrupted are the customer expectations/symbiosis with that old industry.

And no one likes disruption when it's personal.

 

[Quick2Judge]

Take solice. Although you might not have the latest smart phone....in this instance everyone else is still using flip phones....well actually landlines.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

But a moving target is harder to hit. That's what makes all these "Tesla killer due out in 2018" announcements so funny. They can only aim at the current vehicle.

The problem with disrupting an old industry is that one of the things which has to be disrupted are the customer expectations/symbiosis with that old industry.

And no one likes disruption when it's personal.

I'm an early adopter by nature. I don't mind disruption.

I just think this is excessive and unnecessary. Everything you say could be achieved by a less manic pace of change.

But the reality is, Tesla needs these changes to keep up demand - because they refuse to advertise or use regular discount campaigns...

 

[SMAlset]

Did I miss something?--Is there any evidence of 75Ds shipping in the United States with 85kWh batteries? All the evidence I see of deliveries are 75s.

I think this is what you might have missed: Tesla strangely starts delivering new 85 kWh battery packs software-locked at 75 kWh

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Take solice. Although you might not have the latest smart phone....in this instance everyone else is still using flip phones....well actually landlines.

I actually won in the Tesla lottery with my Model X. Timed well in the end, has many discontinued things. So until the big changes hit, it got a good run as a king of the hill.

But this is so rare these days. The cars lose and re-gain features at such a pace it is nearly impossible to plan for. So it comes down to luck.

 

[Quick2Judge]

@BestRadar I don't share your opinion but respect it. And apparently to a degree Tesla must also. When they came out with July 23 upgrades they issued $1,000 - $5,000 discounts to current S/X order holders.

Anybody speculate why? My only reason they would blow millions is because they thought existing customers would get upset/cancel orders. I think it might be less costly/in Tesla's financial interests to be a little more transparent about the quarterly upgrades.

 

[malcolm]

I'm an early adopter by nature. I don't mind disruption.

I just think this is excessive and unnecessary. Everything you say could be achieved by a less manic pace of change.

But the reality is, Tesla needs these changes to keep up demand - because they refuse to advertise or use regular discount campaigns...

But that just leads to the situation where I'm fine with disruption until the point where I'm suddenly not.

Maybe the only comparison I can make is with gambling. You have to decide in advance where your limit is and be determined to stick to it.

Not easy if you constantly watch others apparently gaining more for no reason.

 

[Carl]

Audi does refreshes usually at 3-4 year mark and models every 6-8 years. Of course around week 22 on manufacturing every year the model year changes and I think week 43 are when they do the smaller bi-annual change.

I would be quite happy with Tesla doing one big change twice a year for example. Would allow a rapid pace but also for some planning for those who care. Today they change things 2-6 times each quarter and IMO that's excessive.

My Audi A8 had better resale value after 4+ years than my Model S had after 2+ years. Both were similarly priced, Model S just lost its value almost twice the pace...

@AnxietyRanger: if you quote me, please don't leave out the second half of my post, which contained the point I was trying to make. It's not intellectually very honest of you to do that.

And you can also reply to that second paragraph of my post, if you wish.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

In less than one year of ownership (9 months) and less than $8k miles my $113k 90D Model S seems like a terrible purchase and would be worth a fraction of what it cost. Today you can get a 75D brand new (Shipping with 85k Batteries installed) for $20k less fully loaded and fully charge it and get the same daily mileage.

I dont like the way Tesla keeps adding value to existing models to entice new users while continuing to devalue their existing customers. There is no good time to purchase a Model S or Model X because the minute you get it something you paid for will be given away for free to the next buyer.

Whether is a higher speed charger or full glass roof it seems the longer you wait to make a purchase the better it is. Heck I bought the 90D and right after picking it up the 100D came out and 3 months later the 90D was discontinued. Its crazy how they make so many changes and your brand new car can be discontinued a few months after you get it.

Lease - welcome to the over $100K car experience. I hope they keeping adding value every month, so when the P150D pickup is out I can give this car to my kids..

 

[ecarfan]

I am advocating that they shop giving *sugar* away for free that previous customers had to pay for. Progress is not continuing to give more stuff away to keep enticing new customers while screwing old customers that paid for stuff. Just like customers that paid $7500 to unlock their 75kw batteries and then they dropped it to $2500 for others. This is not innovation.

Hmmm...offering more capability and functionality for the same price or less is not "innovation"?

I strongly disagree.

You are upset because Tesla improved the Model S after you bought your Model S. Which Tesla had been doing continually for several years before you made your purchase. Apparently you had not noticed...

 

[xyeahtony]

How about this, i'll trade you my S75 for your 90D. You'll come out a winner and i'll obviously come out a loser

In less than one year of ownership (9 months) and less than $8k miles my $113k 90D Model S seems like a terrible purchase and would be worth a fraction of what it cost. Today you can get a 75D brand new (Shipping with 85k Batteries installed) for $20k less fully loaded and fully charge it and get the same daily mileage.

A) the 85kwh battery thing is unsubstantiated and was most likely a one-off fluke rather than anything new.
B) 75kwh owners still charge their batteries to 80% or 90%. Thats 192-215mi daily range as opposed to the range of a 90 at 235-265mi daily range.

 

[avesraggiana]

On the days I find myself looking up the Model S configurator, I remind myself of my sneaking suspicion that they're going to make changes soon, and I close the tab.

Me too. Me too.

 

[kort677]

This.
Those leafs dropped 70% in two years.
They are actually great value if you buy a used one.

they are fine little cars if you can be happy with their very limited range. the big bugaboo with the LEAF is their battery degradation issues which may have been resolved in their newer offerings.

 

[Super_Popular]

Tesla has to do something to help with lagging sales. There as not been any new features or changes in awhile. Hopefully they have something exciting up their s

In less than one year of ownership (9 months) and less than $8k miles my $113k 90D Model S seems like a terrible purchase and would be worth a fraction of what it cost. Today you can get a 75D brand new (Shipping with 85k Batteries installed) for $20k less fully loaded and fully charge it and get the same daily mileage.

I dont like the way Tesla keeps adding value to existing models to entice new users while continuing to devalue their existing customers. There is no good time to purchase a Model S or Model X because the minute you get it something you paid for will be given away for free to the next buyer.

Whether is a higher speed charger or full glass roof it seems the longer you wait to make a purchase the better it is. Heck I bought the 90D and right after picking it up the 100D came out and 3 months later the 90D was discontinued. Its crazy how they make so many changes and your brand new car can be discontinued a few months after you get it.

When you have a car like a Tesla and this price point they have to do something to keep sales going. They have not announced any new features in a long time and sales are slumping. My guess in the next 60-90 days there will be something new announced to up sales. Hopefully it's range.

 

[avesraggiana]

Tesla has to do something to help with lagging sales. There as not been any new features or changes in awhile. Hopefully they have something exciting up their s


When you have a car like a Tesla and this price point they have to do something to keep sales going. They have not announced any new features in a long time and sales are slumping. My guess in the next 60-90 days there will be something new announced to up sales. Hopefully it's range.

I’m waiting for a revised interior with more amenities, like overhead grab handles and door pockets. But if an increased range for the P100D were announced tomorrow, I’d be first in line to plonk down my $2500 deposit.