I feel like destination charging is not improving

[DRasheed]

I live in the pacific NW and travel about once a month with my Tesla. The supercharger situation is good enough around here that I can get to and from most destinations. But sometimes there are destinations that require a lot of local driving. That that makes getting from the last supercharger -> destination -> local driving and vampire drain -> back to supercharger dicey sometimes.
I feel like the amount of destination charging at hotels has not really improved much at all over the past 2-3 years. What is needed in my opinion is for the hotel to allow reserving of a charging spot so that you can reliably get destination charging. Instead most hotels don't even have a charger, and if they do the reliability is spotty and availability is hit or miss with possible ICE'ing.
Is destination charging improving in your area? Can you think of any way to encourage hotels to improve the charging situation?

 

[KJD]

I would agree that it could be a lot better than it is. Part of the problem is that we as Tesla drivers do not ask hotels often enough to install these things. I have talked to many hotel front desks and the reaction is always the same. No one has ever asked for that before.

 

[TiggerTime]

Interestingly I was just having this conversation with someone from Key West who works for Hilton and he said Hilton Hotels are starting to require EV charges at their locations. So hopefully we will see other large hotel groups follow this trend. Unfortunately, most chargers at hotels are for guest use only. What they should do is put in ChargePoint or other such chargers where they could offer free charging to guest and a pay for use for non-guest.

 

[brkaus]

I ask at every hotel. I let hotels that have charging know that is why I stayed there. I let hotels that I did not stay at know I went elsewhere because of charging. Usually via email to the manager and on surveys.

I would also be willing to pay for a reserved/guaranteed charging spot.

 

[TechVP]

I live in the pacific NW and travel about once a month with my Tesla.

Curious which city / location are you traveling from/to?
If another Tesla owner asked to use my 17Kw chargers, for similar reasons... I would be able to work something out.
Maybe the PlugShare community would be helpful for the time being?

-TechVP

 

[ewoodrick]

Tesla doesn't own destination chargers, they only make them available.
Tesla destination chargers are also biased, as only one type car can plug in. If I were a company offering charging, I'd install J-1772 plugs, then I fit a lot more of my customer/employee needs. While they might not charge quite as fast, I don't care.

 

[KJD]

Last I heard any location that would install 3 Tesla outlets, they would also give the location a J-1772 outlet (clipper creek) on request.

How many charge stations do you think GM has paid for and given away for free ?

 

[DRasheed]

Curious which city / location are you traveling from/to?
If another Tesla owner asked to use my 17Kw chargers, for similar reasons... I would be able to work something out.
Maybe the PlugShare community would be helpful for the time being?

-TechVP

I live in Portland and travel to Walla walla, Pasco, Spokane, Yakima, Tacoma, Moses lake, Burlington, etc.

I'm sure there are ways that people could help me out. But they aren't convenient like a hotel charger would be. Am I going to hang out at your house for an hour or two? I usually travel for competitions and am busy pretty much all day for 3 days straight so don't have a lot of extra time to spend 2 hours at a restaurant or visitor center or whatever. And often the hotel that has a charger is $200 a night when there is a place that fits my needs fine that is $110 a night.

Just feels like there was some growth in destination charging between 2015-2016 and since then it has been pretty much flat.

 

[SageBrush]

Tesla doesn't own destination chargers, they only make them available.
Tesla destination chargers are also biased, as only one type car can plug in. If I were a company offering charging, I'd install J-1772 plugs, then I fit a lot more of my customer/employee needs. While they might not charge quite as fast, I don't care.

That would seem to be rational but it ignores a couple of realities:

1. Very, very few non Tesla EVs road trip
2. Tesla hands out the equipment for free

 

[SageBrush]

Just feels like there was some growth in destination charging between 2015-2016 and since then it has been pretty much flat.

I suspect that you are right. Tesla spent a lot of money on destination chargers that are rarely used and expensive due to the locations they are at. Overall I think the destination charger program was a massive failure and I am glad that Tesla is spending its resources instead on urban and V3 Superchargers. They are 20 minutes or so less convenient but they serve SO many more people and give us SO much more flexibility in our travel plans.

 

[srs5694]

That would seem to be rational but it ignores a couple of realities:

1. Very, very few non Tesla EVs road trip
2. Tesla hands out the equipment for free

Concerning point #1:

1. Lots of PHEVs are used for road trips. I currently lease a Chevy Volt (my Tesla Model 3 delivery should be soon, but I have no solid date yet), and I took it on several road trips and routinely looked for Level 2 chargers whenever I'd be staying somewhere overnight.
2. Road-tripping with an EV with a ~100-mile range would likely be awkward at best. Until about two years ago, nobody but Tesla sold a 200+-mile EV. Now they're available from several manufacturers, and the number of models is growing fast, and they're getting better DC fast charging capabilities, so I fully expect that the number of those vehicles being used for road trips is increasing daily.

Thus, if you're looking at this from either a public policy or business decision (for hotels, etc.) point of view, installing J1772 Level 2 EVSEs makes more sense than installing Tesla Level 2 EVSEs, assuming similar costs. Although you'd probably see more Tesla than non-Tesla users now, the absolute number of J1772 users will likely increase in time, making J1772 the better investment, given that Teslas can use J1772 EVSEs via an adapter that comes with the car. That said, if a hotel needs several EVSEs, Tesla's destination charging program could be a good way to save a few bucks, if they're still giving out free EVSEs.

 

[KJD]

Interesting that you drive a Volt. Just last week had a conversation with a Volt owner who was livid about GM cancelling production of the Volt rather than trying to update it. That person is also looking to buy a Tesla as their next car purchase.

When you look at the sales numbers of Tesla vs everyone else, no one else is even close. When you combine the 2018 numbers for 3, S and X they are more than half of all plug in sales. If I owned a Hotel, not sure if I would bother with more than one J1772 plug per site.

Monthly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard

 

[SageBrush]

Interesting that you drive a Volt. Just last week had a conversation with a Volt owner who was livid about GM cancelling production of the Volt rather than trying to update it. That person is also looking to buy a Tesla as their next car purchase.

When you look at the sales numbers of Tesla vs everyone else, no one else is even close. When you combine the 2018 numbers for 3, S and X they are more than half of all plug in sales. If I owned a Hotel, not sure if I would bother with more than one J1772 plug per site.

Monthly Plug-In EV Sales Scorecard

Yep. And if you pare the chart down to plug-ins that care* about destination chargers it is pretty much all Tesla. A car like a Bolt may have the range to be a car used in conjunction with hotels but the puny charging infrastructure takes it out of the running.

* I define 'care' by meaning that the hotel is chosen with charging facilities in mind.

 

[TexasEV]

Interestingly I was just having this conversation with someone from Key West who works for Hilton and he said Hilton Hotels are starting to require EV charges at their locations. So hopefully we will see other large hotel groups follow this trend. Unfortunately, most chargers at hotels are for guest use only. What they should do is put in ChargePoint or other such chargers where they could offer free charging to guest and a pay for use for non-guest.

Hotels install them as an amenity to attract business. If non-guests use them, they’re not available for their guests. The hotels are in the business of renting rooms, not EV charging. If you want to charge at a hotel at your destination, choose to stay there overnight instead of somewhere else.

 

[SageBrush]

Hotels install them as an amenity to attract business. If non-guests use them, they’re not available for their guests. The hotels are in the business of renting rooms, not EV charging. If you want to charge at a hotel at your destination, choose to stay there overnight instead of somewhere else.

Or use one of their facilities, e.g. dining or a coffee shop.
They are usually not picky.

In general they view the EVSE as a way to bring money to them by ways other than charging but the nearest Chargepoint to me is a hotel that offers 3.2 kW at $1.3 an hour.

 

[srs5694]

When you look at the sales numbers of Tesla vs everyone else, no one else is even close. When you combine the 2018 numbers for 3, S and X they are more than half of all plug in sales. If I owned a Hotel, not sure if I would bother with more than one J1772 plug per site.

Three points: First, Teslas can charge on J1772 EVSEs with J1772 adapters that come with the cars but non-Teslas can only charge on Tesla EVSEs with the help of an aftermarket adapter that costs ~$200. Thus, a hotel that installs a J1772 EVSE can service any EV that comes its way; but one that installs a Tesla EVSE will be pretty much limited to Teslas. All other things being equal, that heavily favors the J1772 EVSE for a hotel operator, even if Teslas are the vast majority of the use they see. The kicker, of course, is that all other things are not equal, especially with Tesla giving away EVSEs to businesses that want to install them.

Second, neither the installed base of vehicles today nor today's sales figures is necessarily a good guide to what things will look like in the not-too-distant future. Hyundai, Kia, Jaguar, and Audi are starting to roll out 200+-mile EVs (although admittedly at very low volume in the US), GM is planning to introduce new EVs, and VW is the 300-pound gorilla that's apparently serious about introducing a huge volume of new EVs in the next few years. Of course, an EVSE isn't all that hard to replace, so if and when the installed base of cars shifts, it wouldn't be all that hard to replace existing EVSEs; and once the number of EVs on the road increases, it may be necessary for hotels to increase the number of EVSEs in their lots, so this factor may not be all that huge. Still, for a smaller hotel (like a small bed & breakfast), they may see few enough customers that they won't want to deal with a replacement or installing more EVSEs for a while.

Finally, many non-Tesla industrial EVSEs have features that a business might like. ChargePoint units can be configured to charge for electricity, for instance, which could help a business defray the costs of adding an EVSE. OTOH, these features come at a literal price, which may defeat the purpose. I haven't run the numbers on this, though.

Overall, it seems to me that the only advantage to a business for installing a Tesla EVSE is that Tesla is (or was, the last time I heard) giving them away. That saves ~$500-$700 compared to installing something like a ClipperCreek with otherwise similar capabilities. A J1772 EVSE wins on every other measure -- most importantly, the ability to attract a wider array of customers, even if the array isn't that much wider.

 

[TiggerTime]

Hotels install them as an amenity to attract business. If non-guests use them, they’re not available for their guests. The hotels are in the business of renting rooms, not EV charging. If you want to charge at a hotel at your destination, choose to stay there overnight instead of somewhere else.

Yes, hotels mostly make money by the rooms they rent. Offering charging is a great amenity but would mostly be used evening and overnight by guest as during the daytime guest are not typically sitting around hotels unless you are at some place like Disney or other such place. For those hotels that mainly have guest on-site overnight then setting up to allow paid charging during non-guest peak times would help pay for the guest usage.

With a system like ChargPoint they can control allowed charge times and pricing of non-guest and enforce a guest 1st policy as they see fit. Also, when a non-guest does travel they may be more likely to seek out staying at the same brand hotel because they know there will be charging option at those hotels.

 

[SageBrush]

Overall, it seems to me that the only advantage to a business for installing a Tesla EVSE is that Tesla is (or was, the last time I heard) giving them away.

There are more advantages.

For one, Tesla has been known to defray some of the installation costs.
And second, Tesla is a known brand. The hotel benefits from the brand recognition. They might also have to put up with less ICE'ing since drivers may recognize the EVSE for what it is. I have seen ICE drivers park in front of ChargePoint EVSE's with no malice intended even though open spots are adjacent. They simply do not recognize the spot for what it is.

 

[TexasEV]

Another advantage is marketing— the hotel shows up in the destination charging map and is listed in the car nav. When I plan road trips I look at the destination charging map first to choose where to stay, then only if there isn’t an option do I extend my search to other sources.

Someone mentioned ChargePoint stations that can do billing as another option. These are an order of magnitude more expensive than Tesla HPWCs, and besides that they only charge at 30A. There’s good reason for their reputation as being overpriced and underpowered.

 

[SageBrush]

My wife is an Airbnb fan, and after a couple excellent experiences at half the price of a hotel, so am I.
I suspect that hotels will have to change to venues that offer a lot more than a bed for the night and EV charging might be part of the package.