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I feel that these big body/frame castings are an extremely bad idea.

Are big body castings a good long term choice?

  • Castings are good, UNTIL you get in an accident.

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • Castings are bad. High insurance costs.

    Votes: 6 27.3%
  • Other (leave a comment below)

    Votes: 5 22.7%

  • Total voters
    22
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timk225

Active Member
Mar 24, 2016
2,140
2,486
Pittsburgh
I've mentioned it a couple months ago, but now I'll go into more detail.

Long story short, I feel that this whole big body casting idea for Model Y's is a bad idea.

Now, I am sure it is great from a production / parts count / cost reduction point of view. Fewer parts to assemble, it goes together more quickly, get more cars out the door, and greater corporate profits. And the car may run and drive as well as any other.

But the bad side comes in terms of how hard it is to repair the vehicle after an accident. Sheet steel bends. Castings BREAK. Like glass. Castings do not flex.

In most minor to mid size collisions with a sheet steel car, It's not too hard to determine where the damage it, put the car on the frame machine, pull it back into shape, and cut out damaged parts and weld in replacements. Now when you have a car made of castings get hit, you're going to have a shattered casting. Pieces will be broken off here and there. There can be cracks in the casting a couple feet from the point of impact. All these cracks need to be found and dealt with.

Depending on the metal alloy, fixing them can be easy or hard. I used to do a lot with Chrysler cars of the late 60s and early 70s, and salvaging / repairing cast iron engine blocks and heads was always a delicate issue, because even if a cast iron crack could be welded, which was already tricky, you had to trace it down with magnafluxing, find the absolute very tip of the crack, and drill a hole there to stop the crack from spreading further.

I know aluminum is easier to weld, but when you've got an entire rear section of a car all cracked up, how long will it take to go from "fix it" to "total it"? I think not very long.

So I think the whole casting idea is okay..... until some accident happens, then a lot of insurance companies will be paying for total loss accidents that could have been fixed in a sheet metal car.
 
Sorry, I can't go back and change the poll questions. I kind of gave that option but with the UNTIL qualifier. And I've been watching the tear down videos with great interest. Sandy Munro annoys me with that mask and constantly clearing his throat noises in his own shop.
 
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I've mentioned it a couple months ago, but now I'll go into more detail.

Long story short, I feel that this whole big body casting idea for Model Y's is a bad idea.

Now, I am sure it is great from a production / parts count / cost reduction point of view. Fewer parts to assemble, it goes together more quickly, get more cars out the door, and greater corporate profits. And the car may run and drive as well as any other.

But the bad side comes in terms of how hard it is to repair the vehicle after an accident. Sheet steel bends. Castings BREAK. Like glass. Castings do not flex.

In most minor to mid size collisions with a sheet steel car, It's not too hard to determine where the damage it, put the car on the frame machine, pull it back into shape, and cut out damaged parts and weld in replacements. Now when you have a car made of castings get hit, you're going to have a shattered casting. Pieces will be broken off here and there. There can be cracks in the casting a couple feet from the point of impact. All these cracks need to be found and dealt with.

Depending on the metal alloy, fixing them can be easy or hard. I used to do a lot with Chrysler cars of the late 60s and early 70s, and salvaging / repairing cast iron engine blocks and heads was always a delicate issue, because even if a cast iron crack could be welded, which was already tricky, you had to trace it down with magnafluxing, find the absolute very tip of the crack, and drill a hole there to stop the crack from spreading further.

I know aluminum is easier to weld, but when you've got an entire rear section of a car all cracked up, how long will it take to go from "fix it" to "total it"? I think not very long.

So I think the whole casting idea is okay..... until some accident happens, then a lot of insurance companies will be paying for total loss accidents that could have been fixed in a sheet metal car.

I'll admit I have not closely looked into how the Y is made...

Are they really "casting" the Y? If so, which parts? Kind of hard to believe this - this would require extensive finish work.

Are you sure it is not larger stamped sheet metal instead of several smaller pieces? Hard to believe Tesla is actually "casting" tubs and frame parts in lieu of stamping/gluing unibody vehicles like any other manufacturer. From what I've gathered, Sandy Munro just mentioned that they've changed to larger pieces instead of multiple pieces in some areas.
 
The car is better built and stronger with castings. Like others have said, if a car is damaged to the point that a frame is bent it will be totaled regardless of how its built.

This only seems to be a concern for doggy auto repair shops that buy cars that should be scrapped and repair them to a drivable state for profit to the determent of safety for people buying these cars.

This is far from a bad idea to anyone following the progress Tesla is doing to the automobile industry. This is just another crappy industry they will hopefully put out of business.
 
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I've mentioned it a couple months ago, but now I'll go into more detail.

Long story short, I feel that this whole big body casting idea for Model Y's is a bad idea.

Now, I am sure it is great from a production / parts count / cost reduction point of view. Fewer parts to assemble, it goes together more quickly, get more cars out the door, and greater corporate profits. And the car may run and drive as well as any other.

But the bad side comes in terms of how hard it is to repair the vehicle after an accident. Sheet steel bends. Castings BREAK. Like glass. Castings do not flex.

In most minor to mid size collisions with a sheet steel car, It's not too hard to determine where the damage it, put the car on the frame machine, pull it back into shape, and cut out damaged parts and weld in replacements. Now when you have a car made of castings get hit, you're going to have a shattered casting. Pieces will be broken off here and there. There can be cracks in the casting a couple feet from the point of impact. All these cracks need to be found and dealt with.

Depending on the metal alloy, fixing them can be easy or hard. I used to do a lot with Chrysler cars of the late 60s and early 70s, and salvaging / repairing cast iron engine blocks and heads was always a delicate issue, because even if a cast iron crack could be welded, which was already tricky, you had to trace it down with magnafluxing, find the absolute very tip of the crack, and drill a hole there to stop the crack from spreading further.

I know aluminum is easier to weld, but when you've got an entire rear section of a car all cracked up, how long will it take to go from "fix it" to "total it"? I think not very long.

So I think the whole casting idea is okay..... until some accident happens, then a lot of insurance companies will be paying for total loss accidents that could have been fixed in a sheet metal car.
I hear what you say and feel there is merit to it. However, there may be a flip side that hasn't been considered and that is safety. If these large casts are also more likely to protect the occupant from significant physical harm, it's entirely possible there is a meaningful offset of costs. Health care vs. automobile.
 
I'll admit I have not closely looked into how the Y is made...

Are they really "casting" the Y? If so, which parts? Kind of hard to believe this - this would require extensive finish work.

Are you sure it is not larger stamped sheet metal instead of several smaller pieces? Hard to believe Tesla is actually "casting" tubs and frame parts in lieu of stamping/gluing unibody vehicles like any other manufacturer. From what I've gathered, Sandy Munro just mentioned that they've changed to larger pieces instead of multiple pieces in some areas.

There is this tool called Google you can use to learn about this. Takes about 20 seconds to find.
Tesla Model Y Rear Mega Casting Reveals Itself In Teardown Video
 
Any car mechanic that has ever worked or repaired a vehicle before would agree. Insurance on these vehicles is going to be through the roof once they realize how easily they will be written off.

The casting is in the back. I'd think if an accident busts it, it is most likely a rear end collision. This wouldu sually go against the other driver's insurance, so I dont think this will impact Tesla owner's insurance cost much.
 
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Something that never gets mentioned is that with other cars,insurance companies although total a vehicle,they can still auction it off the car and recoup some money.
With teslas being totaled and not being supported with supercharging afterwards. People wont buy or pay much to rebuild a tesla.
I mean,i wouldn't buy a tesla if it can't supercharger. I dont care how cheap it is.
 
Something that never gets mentioned is that with other cars,insurance companies although total a vehicle,they can still auction it off the car and recoup some money.
With teslas being totaled and not being supported with supercharging afterwards. People wont buy or pay much to rebuild a tesla.
I mean,i wouldn't buy a tesla if it can't supercharger. I dont care how cheap it is.

I agree it has a big impact on the value.

But you really wouldn't pay $7 for a Ludacris P100D if it couldn't supercharge?
 
This is leading edge technology, large area diecast structural components. You'll also find them on the 2016+ Cadillac CT6 in both the front and rear.

Car chassis are typically made by stamping or hydroforming. The move towards large diecasts is underway. Whether you like it or not, much of your unibody car chassis cannot be fully repaired to a 'like-new' condition. They don't just bend at the point of impact, they bend a little at all high stress transitions. They use a chassis jig to determine if it's salvageable.

Trivia - Chassis a typical English word. In other words, it's messed up.
Singular - Chassis (CHASS-ee)
Plural - Chassis (CHASS-eez)
 
The math for "totaling" a Tesla is really weird and sort of bad for anyone in love with their car. The bottom line is that insurance company is going to choose the overall lowest cost option (given some legal constraints and perhaps efforts to preserve goodwill). If your Tesla cost $50k new, but is appraised at $35k after a couple of years, even a minor accident could see it being "totaled" as the insurance company sells the "totaled" vehicle at auction. A normal ICE might sell for 10% to 20% of its current value, but that Tesla with a cracked frame has a battery worth $20k? two motors worth $5k each? MCU and other computers worth $1k to $5k? plus nice wheels, some nice seats, etc. So the auction price might easily be $20k or $25k - so, if the repairs are anywhere close to $10k, they will just cut the loses, stop the clock on paying for rental cars, etc., and call it a total. And, it is also important to note that the insurance company isn't out $35k by doing this - just the difference between the appraised value and whatever they sell the salvage vehicle for - so shouldn't raise rates that much.

Without a question, "throwing away" repairable cars is terrible at many economic and sustainability levels and far from the message Tesla started with, but given their decision to lock down service, limit access to repair parts, fail to roll out battery pack upgrades, etc., you have to wonder if they still even remember that was once the point.