I hate Navigate on Autopilot

[Silicon Desert]

We're on 2019.40.50.7. We installed 2019.40.50.5 the day we got the car so I haven't really had any personal experience with older versions to see any upgrades.

I run NoA on Mad Max without lane change confirmation, and I would hope it would give me lane changes that are fast enough, but so far not so much. I'm still really hoping to see some improvements in the future!

That's helpful. I'm starting to think from your experience and others, and mine that it may not necessary be that Tesla API is bad in general, but it sure is not good at handling very heavy traffic which is why I don't use it in those circumstances. Yea, I hope for improvements as well. They seem to be coming on a regular basis. Just not as fast as I would like sometimes. It's a really complicated problem to solve. Fortunately, up here, the traffic is FAR milder (except in a few areas during rush hour), so my AP works really well for me.

As rockster says, I love it on the occasions where I use it. I just have learned where not to use it.

 

[Silicon Desert]

Great description! Socal really requires a weird aggressive defense driving style. You're going to get run off the road if you follow normal defensive driving rules.
I'm betting that's a lot of the issue with the car too. Socal traffic is a corner case compared to so many other areas that it's hard to teach the car how to drive here.

Sssshhhhhh, be quiet. Don't give Elon any ideas. Next thing you know, they will have an option.... "Oh you want the Southern Cal autopilot version, well that is another $7,000"

But hey, now that you said it, that makes me think having lived in a California big city for 30 years, I am a FAR MORE observant driver up here in Nevada where the traffic is child's play in comparison. Notice, I didn't say I was a better driver I said I think after you are used to driving in a big city, you become more observant of the sudden actions of others and we get in a mode of being more watchful.

 

[Big Dog]

We got our model 3 about a month ago and navigate on autopilot was the number one feature I was excited about in the car!

We have done about 1800 miles in the last month almost completely on the highway around southern California.

Navigate on autopilot is a terrible driver. The auto lane changes take so long that drivers in the new lane close the gap before the car moves over. It doesn't seem to have any awareness of the speed of cars behind and in front of you. It'll change lanes when the car in front of you slows down by about 1 mph, but it will change lanes into a much faster lane cutting off cars coming up behind you.

It takes so long to change lanes that it almost always fails to actually make the change. I have to disengage for probably 80% of lane changes and exits. For off ramps it slows down about 200 yards before the actual exit which causes cars behind you to almost hit you.

Many of the roads (not primary highways) around me are 55-65mph but the maps don't have the speed limit data so it maxes out at 50mph which is an unsafe speed on these roads.

Autopilot even drives like it's drunk on about half of my commute. There's a ramp about every mile, but the lanes are a long merge area and the car tries to center itself in the two merging lanes. This happens every mile for about 15 miles of my drive. It makes passengers sick from the constant weaving in the lanes.

There have been many times when the car thinks it needs to change lanes to follow the route but it is completely wrong. I cancel the change and 2 seconds later it tries to change lanes again. Repeat over and over.

I've got to the point where I never use navigate on autopilot and I'm only using autopilot on straight open roads with little traffic.

Autopark is completely useless. I've tried it out in a controlled parking lot in a lot of different parking setups, parallel parking, garages, and lots of other places and it never has once successfully parked.

Navigate on autopilot is making more work for me as a driver to correct all of it's issues.

We bought into navigate on autopilot with the dreams that someday it'll make my commute totally autonomously, but I don't see that happening for many years if ever with this sensor suite.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Also in SoCal, and never use NOA for the reasons mentioned. My PIA is the continuous prompts to move left towards the car pool lane when I'm already doing 65+ and will be exiting right within a mile or so.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Also in SoCal, and never use NOA for the reasons mentioned. My PIA is the continuous prompts to move left towards the car pool lane when I'm already doing 65+ and will be exiting right within a mile or so.

Proof our cars each have their own individual “personality” Mine wants to put me next to the exit lane 2mi before the exit.

 

[Spacecadetwzrd]

I live in socal as well and if im driving i use it. It works great in all traffic for me. I have had the literal opposite experience your describing.

 

[Need]

I think NoA is like a student driver. I just don't see why I would want to use it. The only thing it adds to AutoPilot is changing freeway and those are the times that I don't trust it doing its job.

 

[Silicon Desert]

I think NoA is like a student driver. I just don't see why I would want to use it. The only thing it adds to AutoPilot is changing freeway and those are the times that I don't trust it doing its job.

Too bad it is not working for you. Up here, it works superbly for me. And I do trust it as I have learned it is currently doing a better job of merging after a freeway change, than I probably would. I am usually baffled as to why some say it works great and others say it doesn't.

 

[raptor5244]

I think NoA is like a student driver. I just don't see why I would want to use it. The only thing it adds to AutoPilot is changing freeway and those are the times that I don't trust it doing its job.

Trust is the key. IMO, until you can trust the feature it is more work to babysit/monitor it than to just drive on my own. FSD is a development project and for some it is fun to be a part of the program as it progress. For others they feel like they spent $5-$7k for nothing. You just have to set proper expectations.

 

[Antwan50]

Noa and autopark works great for me

 

[arroyobass]

Sssshhhhhh, be quiet. Don't give Elon any ideas. Next thing you know, they will have an option.... "Oh you want the Southern Cal autopilot version, well that is another $7,000"

But hey, now that you said it, that makes me think having lived in a California big city for 30 years, I am a FAR MORE observant driver up here in Nevada where the traffic is child's play in comparison. Notice, I didn't say I was a better driver I said I think after you are used to driving in a big city, you become more observant of the sudden actions of others and we get in a mode of being more watchful.

Well maybe all the socal folks can just take pride in the fact we are probably submitting a lot of good training data back to Tesla!

And you're exactly right! Driving in the cities really does make you a more observant driver. That is one great thing about the car is that it's always watching and never distracted!

 

[rdcisneros3]

I am usually baffled as to why some say it works great and others say it doesn't.

That's because sometimes it works great, and sometimes it doesn't.

This coming from someone who uses it daily (65 mile round trip).

 

[CrayZ1]

Changing lanes in California is easy for a human driver in an EV.
No signal, stab pedal, squeeze in next lane.

While I don't do it, it's understandable. People speed up to block you the instant you use a turn signal to change lanes. EV punch makes it far simpler jump in front of them. A polite driver's aid is never going to work here unless the CHP starts citing people for tailgating. Peeps be road ragin' if you allow 2 seconds of room.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

One of the frustrating things right now with NoA is people with HW2.5 are experiencing different issues than people with HW3.

I have HW2.5 so when my car wants to change lanes there is this weird delay like the OP talks about. But, if manually initiate the lane change than there isn't the delay. Now I could understand if the delay on NoA is due to it wanting to make sure my hands were on the steering wheel, but I've given it slight tugs and still nothing.

I've heard that people with HW3 don't have this issue.

HW2.5 people also have the issue where the car camps out in the left lane, and I've heard that HW3 doesn't do that.

Both things are a bit odd, and I don't understand why they would be different.

 

[drtimhill]

We're on 2019.40.50.7. We installed 2019.40.50.5 the day we got the car so I haven't really had any personal experience with older versions to see any upgrades.

I run NoA on Mad Max without lane change confirmation, and I would hope it would give me lane changes that are fast enough, but so far not so much. I'm still really hoping to see some improvements in the future!

Mad Max doesnt change the actual mechanics of lane changes, they are all done at the same pace. It just makes the car more enthusiastic about choosing to make the changes in the first place. So you actually might find the whole experience less frustrating if you back down on that setting. Where are you using Autopilot? Some of your remarks make it sound like you are using it on non-highways, which it really isnt designed for. Not making excuses, you are right that it needs to (continue to) improve on freeways as well.

 

[vikefan]

Don’t understand why there are people in this thread acting like the OP must just need to update software, or that he must not be applying torque to the wheel for lane changes.

I’m currently on 2019.40.50.7 (HW 2.5), and I can confirm literally every single thing OP said also happens to me. Regularly. In addition to all of that, there are specific spots on several SoCal freeways where I’ve learned to preemptively disable AP and take over because NoA will *always* phantom break hard at those specific spots if I don’t.

Additionally, the car will randomly tell me it wants to get out of the “passing lane”, even when I’m driving at midnight, nearly zero traffic, and I’m going 80 mph. Other times it doesn’t. There’s no rhyme or reason.

I still use NoA regularly because my normal commute is basically a 90 minute drive in one lane for 63 miles from riverside to Santa Monica, and NoA is generally good for that. But anything even slightly more complex than that causes all sorts of problems on a regular basis, and it always has for the entire time I’ve owned the car, though of course it’s continued to improve over time.

 

[raptor5244]

Don’t understand why there are people in this thread acting like the OP must just need to update software, or that he must not be applying torque to the wheel for lane changes.

I’m currently on 2019.40.50.7 (HW 2.5), and I can confirm literally every single thing OP said also happens to me. Regularly. In addition to all of that, there are specific spots on several SoCal freeways where I’ve learned to preemptively disable AP and take over because NoA will *always* phantom break hard at those specific spots if I don’t.

Additionally, the car will randomly tell me it wants to get out of the “passing lane”, even when I’m driving at midnight, nearly zero traffic, and I’m going 80 mph. Other times it doesn’t. There’s no rhyme or reason.

I still use NoA regularly because my normal commute is basically a 90 minute drive in one lane for 63 miles from riverside to Santa Monica, and NoA is generally good for that. But anything even slightly more complex than that causes all sorts of problems on a regular basis, and it always has for the entire time I’ve owned the car, though of course it’s continued to improve over time.

Tesla says they use the cameras “vision” to make decisions so I wonder what causes phantom braking. I wonder what it sees or doesn’t see that causes the software program to apply random braking. For example, on your commute at those specific spots where it always phantom brakes do you think the cameras are picking up shadows or something?

I experienced a random brake once when I was in the middle lane and two cars were simultaneously passing me on the left and right lane. It was like the car panicked since it was boxed in on the left and right at the same time so it applied hard braking for some reason. I wonder if it was programmed to do that or if the side cameras saw two cars closing in on both sides so it made a decision to separate from them?

I think that is the tricky part about autopilot. We as human drivers are really good at pattern recognition. We know to stay out of blind spots, stay away from dump trucks spewing rocks all over the road, identify the rough patches and potholes ahead. We know how much to slow down and speed up in bad weather or poor visibility situations. We can see the bike rider in the bike lane and make a decision to change lanes or edge over a bit in the lane to offer more space. We see the pickup truck ahead carrying so much stuff to the dump that it looks like it is going to fall out all over the road so we make a decision to change lanes. We can also hear things and we can associate what we hear with what we see. We can hear the police or fire sirens and get a sense of what to do next.

There are so many unconscious decisions being made when we drive it just seems hard to believe that autopilot will ever reach that level of autonomy. That said, it is pretty amazing what the system is able to accomplish. As long as folks set proper expectations and use the AP as a drivers assistant, which requires your full attention to monitor and validate its decisions, then many folks will be pleased with it as enjoy being a part of the development effort.

 

[arroyobass]

Mad Max doesnt change the actual mechanics of lane changes, they are all done at the same pace. It just makes the car more enthusiastic about choosing to make the changes in the first place. So you actually might find the whole experience less frustrating if you back down on that setting. Where are you using Autopilot? Some of your remarks make it sound like you are using it on non-highways, which it really isnt designed for. Not making excuses, you are right that it needs to (continue to) improve on freeways as well.

I did change the speed based lane changes from Mad Max to average last night and it did help quite a bit actually! Not perfect, but better for sure!

I'm using it on roads that are not numbered highways but are highways for all intents and purposes. They are four lanes without lights or stops with speeds ranging from 55-65 mph.

Definitely looking forward to some future updates!