I hope Tesla Lowers the Supercharging Rates

[TeeEmCee]

*facepalm*
CapEx does not show up as an expense on the balance sheet. It shows up as an asset.

And, inevitably, a Reagan quote comes to mind: "... it's just that they know so many things that aren't so".

These two threads on supercharging costs have been thoroughly interesting and entertaining. Not good for my productivity today, but interesting and entertaining nonetheless.

Thanks, y'all!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

We have 3 chargers in SD area, Downtown charges per hour for parking. Qualcomm is free to charge / free to park but there's always a long line, then Oceanside has the urban chargers but no paid parking.


Tier 3 SDGE,...I was well into tier 3 charging the volt + running AC in August (it was well over 95deg for pretty much the whole month straight). The tesla needs about 2x the charge as the volt for my daily commute. I could see that costing an additional $300-$400 over the $500 I paid if I had the model 3. Tier 1 is really small and 2 goes quickly with AC usage and car charging.

Right now it looks like 80% of our power usage is charging the model 3 at night.

https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-18 Schedule DR Total Rates Table.pdf

No Model 3 vs Model 3:
View attachment 370712

There is another Supercharger (only 72kW?) on Camino Del Sur which may or may not be better for you. It seems like it opened pretty recently. I have no idea. I have FUSC, but never go to Superchargers, so don't know the situation with this one.

EDIT: there is an entire thread about it of course.
Supercharger - San Diego, CA - Camino Del Sur (Black Mountain Ranch area, LIVE 11 Jan 2019)

It seems like calculating the cost of additional solar (increase density and area?) would be worth comparing vs. your electric bills at this point. Those AC bills are not coming down; the world is now starting to heat out of control (it really is hopeless!). Maybe even put them in your yard. My main regret in getting solar is that I didn't go with an 8kW system and put it all over the house; I made it relatively unobtrusive instead for aesthetic reasons. Though prices have come down since then, so maybe it was best to wait. Maybe just rethink things when I redo my roof.

 

[pdamski]

I have a question which may or may not apply to this discussion. I was recently at the Harris Ranch Supercharger on a trip to the factory. This is an industrial setup with 37? charging stalls and the roof's are all solar panels. I assume they have Powerwalls in the locked stalls to store unused energy. Isn't this a model for Tesla where the local generating has little to no influence? I have learned a great deal about economics by reading this and I thank you all.

 

[Glamisduner]

There is another Supercharger (only 72kW?) on Camino Del Sur which may or may not be better for you. It seems like it opened pretty recently. I have no idea. I have FUSC, but never go to Superchargers, so don't know the situation with this one.

EDIT: there is an entire thread about it of course.
Supercharger - San Diego, CA - Camino Del Sur (Black Mountain Ranch area, LIVE 11 Jan 2019)

It seems like calculating the cost of additional solar (increase density and area?) would be worth comparing vs. your electric bills at this point. Those AC bills are not coming down; the world is now starting to heat out of control (it really is hopeless!). Maybe even put them in your yard. My main regret in getting solar is that I didn't go with an 8kW system and put it all over the house; I made it relatively unobtrusive instead for aesthetic reasons. Though prices have come down since then, so maybe it was best to wait. Maybe just rethink things when I redo my roof.

Nice, it finally opened! I pretty much do no supercharging because I don't have that kind of free time, but good to know it's open now and that QC is charging.

I only have a 7kW solar system, but I need to have some defective panels repaired before I consider adding more ( guess I could put more panels in my front yard (It's just dirt at this point anyways). I'd prefer to pay off the 20k I still owe on the first system first though! Actually I'm not sure there is much point in adding more solar on TOU, since SDG&E kind of rips you off on that, charging you more than double for power when your solar isn't producing than what they credit you for sending them back power when your producing more than your consuming.

Whenever I see you post about your electric usage I feel bad. I'm also on SDG&E, have solar (8kW) and a heat pump, and have a ~$5 a month bill. You're definitely subsidizing my use of the grid!

The Qualcomm supercharger is now $0.34/kWh. It will be interesting to see if that eliminates the congestion there (I checked this morning and it was still full). Maybe I'll be able to go over there and see if supercharging works on my car.

Nice, it finally opened! I pretty much do no supercharging because I don't have that kind of free time, but good to know it's open now and that QC is charging.

I only have a 7kW solar system, but I need to have some defective panels repaired before I consider adding more ( guess I could put more panels in my front yard (It's just dirt at this point anyways). I'd prefer to pay off the 20k I still owe on the first system first though! Actually I'm not sure there is much point in adding more solar on TOU, since SDG&E kind of rips you off on that, charging you more than double for power when your solar isn't producing than what they credit you for sending them back power when your producing more than your consuming.

I don't know how you do it Daniel! I bet if we had natural gas connection our power would be allot cheaper though. Maybe I should get some timers to turn off the water heater and refrigerator and freezers during peak hours.

 

[kbecks13]

If you're annoyed that Supercharging costs are about equivalent to a gasoline hybrid vehicle, believe me when I say you'd be far more annoyed if you had to wait in line for an hour whenever you want to Supercharge.

This quote about sums it up for me...

 

[Knightshade]

I have a question which may or may not apply to this discussion. I was recently at the Harris Ranch Supercharger on a trip to the factory. This is an industrial setup with 37? charging stalls and the roof's are all solar panels. I assume they have Powerwalls in the locked stalls to store unused energy. Isn't this a model for Tesla where the local generating has little to no influence? I have learned a great deal about economics by reading this and I thank you all.

To my knowledge most SC locations are on someone elses land, usually with a much smaller # of stalls too.

(of the half dozen I've been to in the southeast for example they're mostly all at the far corner of some huge parking lot owned by someone else (malls, a hotel, or in one case at a Sheetz gas station))

So setting up solar/battery equipment would be significantly less likely/practical in those cases..... and acquiring their own land all over the country for SCs would be insanely expensive up front.

 

[Electroman]

In short, you pay for speed. The difference in price between bullet train costs and a slow regular train.

 

[pdamski]

To my knowledge most SC locations are on someone elses land, usually with a much smaller # of stalls too.

(of the half dozen I've been to in the southeast for example they're mostly all at the far corner of some huge parking lot owned by someone else (malls, a hotel, or in one case at a Sheetz gas station))

So setting up solar/battery equipment would be significantly less likely/practical in those cases..... and acquiring their own land all over the country for SCs would be insanely expensive up front.

I will share that this piece of land was probably not too expensive as it is in the boonies. I understand that urban land purchases are another story.

 

[rickjames]

There is another Supercharger (only 72kW?) on Camino Del Sur which may or may not be better for you. It seems like it opened pretty recently. I have no idea. I have FUSC, but never go to Superchargers, so don't know the situation with this one.

EDIT: there is an entire thread about it of course.
Supercharger - San Diego, CA - Camino Del Sur (Black Mountain Ranch area, LIVE 11 Jan 2019)

It seems like calculating the cost of additional solar (increase density and area?) would be worth comparing vs. your electric bills at this point. Those AC bills are not coming down; the world is now starting to heat out of control (it really is hopeless!). Maybe even put them in your yard. My main regret in getting solar is that I didn't go with an 8kW system and put it all over the house; I made it relatively unobtrusive instead for aesthetic reasons. Though prices have come down since then, so maybe it was best to wait. Maybe just rethink things when I redo my roof.

It is usually full or close to it and it has only been a little over a week. This is the fourth of four SCs in SD county. (Downtown, Qualcomm, Carlsbad, and now Camino Del Sur).

 

[DrDabbles]

Im not asking for a free lunch. I pay for my supercharging. But $.30+ is ridiculous when I pay $.05 at home. Tesla will not succeed long term with the mainstream public if there is no price advantage vs an ICE and now there isn't. Yes Tesla's are cool cars and I love then. But look at history and you will see that the car companies that succeed are the ones that create cost effective cars. Which now ICE vehicles cost less up front, cost same now to operate, and have a far better fuel network worldwide.

Instead of raising costs, just release adapters for Tesla's to use EVgo, Charge Point, and Electrify America fast chargers. Bam problem solved.

EVgo is significantly more expensive where I live than Tesla's fees. I live in a per-minute state (the majority of states), and EVgo charges $0.35/min for 50kW max rate. Tesla's supercharger is $0.14 when charging at speeds under 60kW, and $0.28 for speeds over 60kW. Not only can I charge in less time on a Tesla charger, but it's less money no matter the speed I charge at. And this was the same everywhere I stopped on a recent road trip.

And Tesla doesn't charge a membership fee, so I can charge any time of day, as many times I need a day. I can not do that with EVgo in my location, because they limit the session length. Also, on EVgo, whether you're on CCS, ChaDeMo, or J1172, you're charged the same exact per-minute fee. So imagine charging your slow charging EV for $0.35 a minute for hour after hour, while I plug into a 120kW supercharger and I'm done in 45 minutes after paying only a few dollars.

*facepalm*
CapEx does not show up as an expense on the balance sheet. It shows up as an asset.

...what? What are you talking about? Did you not pay attention to the word you used? Balance sheet. The credits need to equal the debits, or else it doesn't...balance.

Am I reading that right? 20 cents per minute?

View attachment 370708

Only in a few places. When electricity is cheap, charging is cheap. When electricity is expensive, charging is expensive. A major benefit of basing charge costs on grid costs is that grid costs are much more stable than fuel prices, which fluctuate based on markets and seasonality.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

It is usually full or close to it and it has only been a little over a week. This is the fourth of four SCs in SD county. (Downtown, Qualcomm, Carlsbad, and now Camino Del Sur).

So odd. Not sure what people could possibly be doing there.

 

[rickjames]

That sounds like an issue with San Diego in general, not Tesla in terms of paying for parking. Also, you just admitted that there is an overpopulation issue with superchargers, and yet you refuse to help Tesla expand their network. Talking on the internet is one thing, actually taking action (paying with your wallet) is another. You really think Tesla would “hurt” as you say, their future sales if they had no choice but to raise the price to expedite their roll out of supercharger stations?

Quick edit: My apologies I initally understood you were against Tesla raising their prices. I’m going to leave the post unedited as a reply to OP. To add onto my comment above, I’d like to point out to the issue you said about people not having room at their home to charge. The main reason Supercharging isn’t supposed to be your primary source for charging is because of the effects it has on the battery long term. Could you guys not petition to get more public chargers installed instead of using superchargers?

For starters, I was never offered a supercharging option to purchase, even with a referral when I got my M3 as I was pretty early. I was pretty pissed when it was offered as a demand lever further down the road. If it was an option to purchase for 2500 or even 3000 I would have done it, no questions asked. I have submitted to my HOA multiple proposals to install a charger and none of them have worked (I live in a condo). Supercharging may have an effect on the battery long term, but there is a ridiculous amount of people who have FUCL in their X/S and supercharge every other day and have been since purchase. If the effect is significant, never buy a used Tesla from San Diego.

 

[Lloyd]

For starters, I was never offered a supercharging option to purchase, even with a referral when I got my M3 as I was pretty early. I was pretty pissed when it was offered as a demand lever further down the road. If it was an option to purchase for 2500 or even 3000 I would have done it, no questions asked. I have submitted to my HOA multiple proposals to install a charger and none of them have worked (I live in a condo). Supercharging may have an effect on the battery long term, but there is a ridiculous amount of people who have FUCL in their X/S and supercharge every other day and have been since purchase. If the effect is significant, never buy a used Tesla from San Diego.

You live in California. The laws are on your side here. A condo can't refuse you any reasonable installation to charge your vehicle at your cost. You do have to purchase insurance on their behalf, however for your installation. There are several threads on the topic here.

 

[TT97]

View attachment 370727 I have a question which may or may not apply to this discussion. I was recently at the Harris Ranch Supercharger on a trip to the factory. This is an industrial setup with 37? charging stalls and the roof's are all solar panels. I assume they have Powerwalls in the locked stalls to store unused energy. Isn't this a model for Tesla where the local generating has little to no influence? I have learned a great deal about economics by reading this and I thank you all.

I think that picture (and description) is Kettleman City - 40 stalls. Harris Ranch is the next location north on I-5 and has 18 stalls.

Kettleman City does have solar and powerwalls (or at least, some kind of battery storage). It also has a Tesla café/lounge/store. Tesla leases the entire site and has invested significant capital on this site. It is their ideal model but I also think it is the only one they have like this in the U.S. All the other superchargers are located on someone else's property and they just have x number of parking spaces.

Tesla opens "Mega" Superchargers with lounge, food services, kid's area, and pet amenity

Edit: Apparently Baker also has solar and powerbanks but no Tesla lounge. (but does have a Dairy Queen adjacent!)

 

[MP3Mike]

I live in NC, and Tesla has recently raised the national average price for supercharging significantly. Currently the prices around me:

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Lumberton N.C. - .27c/KW

It looks like you got your wish already, Tesla now lists the national average as $0.28/kWh.

Can you look again and see if the sites near you have changed?

 

[YisSerL]

It looks like you got your wish already, Tesla now lists the national average as $0.28/kWh.

Can you look again and see if the sites near you have changed?

Yeah, just saw this article too.

Tesla cuts Supercharger prices back down after customer backlash over increase

 

[TeeEmCee]

It looks like you got your wish already, Tesla now lists the national average as $0.28/kWh.

Can you look again and see if the sites near you have changed?

Looks like their reading of the customer piss-o-meter was a bit high and they backed off some.

 

[TT97]

Here in California charging puts me into the highest tier PG&E rate is $0.26 per KW. which roughly = about 50 MPGe. Far less than what Tesla advertised, (110 MPGe)

I don't think you understand MPGe.

(While I don't agree with the EPA's methodology), here goes, the EPA estimates a gallon of gasoline has 115,000 British Thermal Units (BTU). 115,000 BTU is equivalent to 33.7 kWh so 1 gallon of gasoline is the same as 33.7 kWh. When calculating MPGe, the EPA calculates how far the car can travel on 33.7 kWh, so 110 MPGe would be equivalent to 3.26 mi/kWh or more common 306 Wh/mile.

It is a stupid calculation as it makes no sense for comparison but it has nothing to do with price and only with energy. Diesel has a higher BTU than gasoline and blended gasolines have a lower BTU but there is no differentiation in those.

Comparing MPGe to MPG makes little sense - comparing EVs to each other, MPGe makes sense but at that point Wh/mile is easier to understand. The annual fuel costs it shows makes a better comparison but you are better off doing on-line where you can input your own electric and gas prices.

 

[happyzod]

...what? What are you talking about? Did you not pay attention to the word you used? Balance sheet. The credits need to equal the debits, or else it doesn't...balance.

A balance sheet doesn't need to balance. It shows all assets and liabilities for a company. At the end, there is either positive shareholder equity or negative shareholder equity and that equity number is called the book value.

If I spend money on equipment that will be used for a long time, that money spent on equipment does not count as a loss and not reported as such. Instead, I will put the value of the equipment as an asset on the balance sheet. Every year, I will earmark a portion of that asset as depreciation and that amount counts as an expense and reduces my earnings in the income statement.

 

[SigNC]

I live in NC, and Tesla has recently raised the national average price for supercharging significantly. Currently the prices around me:

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Lumberton N.C. - .27c/KW

Just to clarify those rates are for level 2 per minute charging as NC doesn’t allow for charge per kWh. In that minute you could in theory get 2kW so the per kWh is half to some percentage approaching 1 of rates.