I hope to make $10-30K per year for my Model 3

[ElectricLee]

Phase 1 - For 12-24 months, they would have hired drivers (Formal Tesla Delivery Specialist) in the car but will limited the interaction of the car's Autopilot/FSD at a given rate.
Phase 2 - For the next 24 months offer both hired driver and full self driving cars. The FSD cars will be at 50% lower than the current given rate.

Something like this will help ease people into this. It's just like the "Tesla Autonomy Event" 20 min test drives for the investors in general.

 

[LCR1]

That's impossible if Tesla refuses to sell discounted fleet vehicles (and given they've got retail customers for every car they can build so far that's likely.... GM/Ford/etc only sell discounted fleet vehicles to cab companies because they have more production capacity than customers otherwise- Tesla doesn't.

Also the economics of buying a fleet of $50,000 Teslas vs. a fleet of ~$20,000 Priuses with human drivers is a thing.

You should tell Elon the economics don't work, how is a taxi company making money while driving ICE cars while paying humans? but somehow they'll lose money buying a $35K tesla vs a 20K other car? Even if they sprung for $50K/ teslas they don't need they'd make up that $30K difference in a single year not paying a driver.

Lastly there's the dispatch issue. If the Tesla method requires using the Tesla app... the cab company is no longer a cab company. They can't do their own calls or dispatch.

You think they wouldn't associate multiple names/accounts to between all the cars? What is someone with multiple cars on their account right now supposed to do? Is tesla going to limit you to one car to rideshare per account?

Far as anybody can tell- mostly they have people who stole things from Waymo- so much so they settled in court for north of 400 million dollars in payment to them.

Ubers robotaxis are certainly not in service though. Only Waymos are. In one specific small part of Arizona only, and still with a human backup driver.

What are you talking about? Do you not remember the outcry when one of Ubers automated cars killed someone?

Which markets does Uber have 100% share in?

All of the markets no other company operates in RGV and Central Texas have huge markets with Uber as the only service. Location in LA and GA where I visit family has no Lyft presence, only Uber.

Their share overall in the US has been dropping pretty bad last couple of years... it was over 80% start of 2017, it was down to the high 60s by end of 2018.

That's the opposite trend you'd see of a company with a "locked down" market.

If you're going to change my words then at least make it worthwhile, If you continued reading the same sentence you'd see I said Lyft is slowly chipping away at that.

They spent 500 million last year on ONE ad campaign and LOST a ton of market share? That makes your argument look even worse about the "locked down" market thing.

see comment above where I mentioned in the same sentence Lyft is chipping away at that. And actually it helps my argument, Uber is spending hundreds of millions on advertising and still losing ground, but somehow Tesla, a company known for NOT advertising is supposed to start gaining all this market share?

 

[MaxPowers]

This is my experience with being a landlord. People don't take care of things, some people will barely take care of their own things. The maintenance costs of rentals is high and will eat away any profits you were hoping to get. Not to mention all the time you have to put into them.

I'm guessing you are going to have a lot wear and tear and you'll have to put some of your earnings or time on the keeping the car clean, replacing torn out seats, etc.

 

[Nocturnal]

This is my experience with being a landlord. People don't take care of things, some people will barely take care of their own things. The maintenance costs of rentals is high and will eat away any profits you were hoping to get. Not to mention all the time you have to put into them.

I'm guessing you are going to have a lot wear and tear and you'll have to put some of your earnings or time on the keeping the car clean, replacing torn out seats, etc.

No such thing as a free lunch for sure. For most owners I think just paying their car payment/insurance would be more than enough compensation.

 

[Knightshade]

You should tell Elon the economics don't work,

Why? He already knows. One investor actually ASKED HIM why a company wouldn't just buy a ton of Teslas as a fleet and he Elon said the same thing I'm telling you- it doesn't make a lot of sense to do that.

how is a taxi company making money while driving ICE cars while paying humans? but somehow they'll lose money buying a $35K tesla vs a 20K other car?

A 35k Tesla doesn't offer FSD. You're over 40k at the lowest end (if SR is good enough).

Not to mention, if you're having to pay supercharger pricing, in some areas, your fuel costs aren't any better than a Prius (arguably worse because your downtime for fueling is MUCH higher)

Even if they sprung for $50K/ teslas they don't need they'd make up that $30K difference in a single year not paying a driver.

That's great. Where do they get the extra $30,000 up front for each car they buy though?

Especially since we just established they won't actually come out ahead of going human/prius for over a year after purchase?

In fact, given the cut Tesla will be taking from each ride, it might be a lot more than a year. Elon estimated gross revenue might be ~30k a year, not net.

You think they wouldn't associate multiple names/accounts to between all the cars? What is someone with multiple cars on their account right now supposed to do? Is tesla going to limit you to one car to rideshare per account?

...that has nothing to do with what I wrote.

They no longer have dispatch ability if the rider has to summon the Tesla to themselves with the app instead of calling the cab company.

Unless NOBODY ELSE in town is running a tesla in taxi mode they can't even decide if their cars get picked anytime someone hails.

They're not a cab company anymore. They're a company that owns cars in Teslas cab company.

(who again probably can't even buy all the discount Teslas they need if Tesla refuses to do fleet sales)

What are you talking about? Do you not remember the outcry when one of Ubers automated cars killed someone?

Sure. It was being tested by Uber. It was not in service as a cab

All of the markets no other company operates in RGV and Central Texas have huge markets with Uber as the only service. Location in LA and GA where I visit family has no Lyft presence, only Uber.

You realize normal cab companies still exist in places Uber operates, right?

(if fact you were just telling us about them and how they're gonna snatch up all these teslas!)

see comment above where I mentioned in the same sentence Lyft is chipping away at that. And actually it helps my argument, Uber is spending hundreds of millions on advertising and still losing ground, but somehow Tesla, a company known for NOT advertising is supposed to start gaining all this market share?

Tesla spends $0.00 on advertising and somehow ended up with the best selling car in multiple segments. And cars are a lot more expensive to get someone to buy than a taxi ride. I think they'll manage.

 

[ElectricLee]

No such thing as a free lunch for sure. For most owners I think just paying their car payment/insurance would be more than enough compensation.

Along with all the business right offs that are allowed. Depreciation and other tax right offs are awesome. Just keep your books straight and have copies off all receipts, don't mix bank accounts, etc...

 

[Nocturnal]

Along with all the business right offs that are allowed. Depreciation and other tax right offs are awesome. Just keep your books straight and have copies off all receipts, don't mix bank accounts, etc...

My P3D is very much my "fun" (well, only) car and it's not just a car to me. That said, if this system is anywhere close to workable then I doubt I would be able to pass up the income. Maybe my car get's beat to death after 2 years, I should be able to buy the next one cash.

I already use my car as mixed company/personal use under my LLC so ride sharing would be super easy.

 

[LCR1]

Why? He already knows. One investor actually ASKED HIM why a company wouldn't just buy a ton of Teslas as a fleet and he Elon said the same thing I'm telling you- it doesn't make a lot of sense to do that.

Just like it won't make any sense to do that with a company like tesloop? They're buying highend S models and running a successful business.

A 35k Tesla doesn't offer FSD. You're over 40k at the lowest end (if SR is good enough).

Not to mention, if you're having to pay supercharger pricing, in some areas, your fuel costs aren't any better than a Prius (arguably worse because your downtime for fueling is MUCH higher)

any argument you have against companies using Teslas will apply to individuals, those individuals will also have to pay for supercharging. Elon claims $30K in gross profit, if the net profit comes out to be zero why would an owner even do it. Again, any obstacles a person has a company will have.

That's great. Where do they get the extra $30,000 up front for each car they buy though?

Especially since we just established they won't actually come out ahead of going human/prius for over a year after purchase?

In fact, given the cut Tesla will be taking from each ride, it might be a lot more than a year. Elon estimated gross revenue might be ~30k a year, not net.

You really think they are paying up front for any of these vehicles? The company I work for right now drive about 15 million miles a year in the fleet and has Billions in assets, we finance the hell out of anything because bank rates are 5-8% and our margins ar 12-20% Even the smaller company I worked at that had 40 or so vehicles financed everyone of them because we leveraged the banks money at 7% to earn 12% net margins.

...that has nothing to do with what I wrote.

They no longer have dispatch ability if the rider has to summon the Tesla to themselves with the app instead of calling the cab company.

Unless NOBODY ELSE in town is running a tesla in taxi mode they can't even decide if their cars get picked anytime someone hails.

They're not a cab company anymore. They're a company that owns cars in Teslas cab company.

(who again probably can't even buy all the discount Teslas they need if Tesla refuses to do fleet sales)

Why do you need to dispatch every call? you're no longer paying a driver and the car can sit there on the Tesla app for as long as it wants. Just like a driver will sit there until dispatched. Yes the become part of the larger collective but they are still there making money without paying a driver and far less maintenance.

Sure. It was being tested by Uber. It was not in service as a cab

then by that standard your waymo example doesn't even count.

You realize normal cab companies still exist in places Uber operates, right?

(if fact you were just telling us about them and how they're gonna snatch up all these teslas!)

Exactly, they're established and have resources. And as great as uber and lyft are, they still have market share. So why wouldn't a declining market like taxis just switch their fleets over to the tesla network? The owners are still making money, you think they will care whether it's dispatching their own cars or through a ride share? money is money, regardless if it's on a taxi or rideshare platform.

Tesla spends $0.00 on advertising and somehow ended up with the best selling car in multiple segments. And cars are a lot more expensive to get someone to buy than a taxi ride. I think they'll manage.

This has been discussed ad nauseum, Tesla is in a unique spot, there's no way to atribute how many sales are a result of competition with BMW or Audi and how many sales are a result of someone wanting a long range EV. I would have never considered a 7 series or MB S-Class but because I bought a Tesla, I'm all of a sudden considered their competition and I took Audis market share. No I was, nor ever will be in the market for a full size luxury car. Audi never had my market share therefore Tesla never took it, but on paper, because I bought a Model S Tesla is stomping the competition. Tesla took a sale away from a new Ford F-350 when I bought my car, not any of the companies they're compared to. So until EV sales are categorized properly, the numbers will always be skewed.

 

[Knightshade]

Just like it won't make any sense to do that with a company like tesloop? They're buying highend S models and running a successful business.

because they're catering to a very high end market. Not people trying to save $2 compared to taking a normal cab.

That's comparing apples and caviar.

any argument you have against companies using Teslas will apply to individuals

They really won't.

For example buying ONE car costs a lot less than buying a FLEET of them. Not sure how that escaped you?

Likewise, running your personal car in your down hours as a taxi you don't have to get into is a completely different economic calculation than "buying a fleet of Teslas and having SC downtime, versus much less downtime refueling a Prius that costs 30 grand per car less but needs a driver"

Again worlds of difference there.

Plus the whole "Tesla is happy to sell a consumer a car. They can easily refuse to sell a company a fleet of them to avoid this entire problem"

, those individuals will also have to pay for supercharging. Elon claims $30K in gross profit, if the net profit comes out to be zero why would an owner even do it. Again, any obstacles a person has a company will have.

Also no.

The individual gets to HAVE A CAR when he needs it. And can make some $ in his spare time.

He's not needing to run the taxi as many hours as possible in hopes of making a successful business that can afford the $50,000 cars it just bought. Worlds apart once again.

You really think they are paying up front for any of these vehicles? The company I work for right now drive about 15 million miles a year in the fleet and has Billions in assets, we finance the hell out of anything because bank rates are 5-8% and our margins are 12-20%

Ah- so now it's even longer to pay the car off since you're paying interest on top. Better hope the "extra" from going tesla/self driving keeps ahead of the interest compared to just using a human in a prius. Assuming Tesla will even sell you a fleet, which again they have no real reason to do.

Why do you need to dispatch every call?

Because that's literally part of what a cab company is.

They have a number you call to request a car, and they send one to you.

That can't be done anymore with the Tesla system.

Nobody can request a "AAA Cab" tesla. They just get whatever the next available tesla of that type is- could be from AAA Cab, could be Fred from Accounting Who Is Earning Money While He Sleeps"


On top of that- the OTHER major way a cab company gets fares is by sitting/idling in front of hotels, airports, convention centers... places it's generally illegal to "park"

So without a driver they can't really do that.

then by that standard your waymo example doesn't even count.

Sure it does. Waymo is actually acting as a self-driving taxi for paid passengers. Just in a really tiny service area. Uber is not.

Exactly, they're established and have resources. And as great as uber and lyft are, they still have market share. So why wouldn't a declining market like taxis just switch their fleets over to the tesla network?

Tesla not selling fleet cars would be one reason- as mentioned like 10 times now.

The fact they cost 2.5 times as much as a fleet prius, and have hours more downtime a day for refueling would be others.

Inability to control dispatch or idle outside locations would be yet more.

Losing control over the fare rates and the % of the fare they get would be yet another. (Tesla would control that)

This has been discussed ad nauseum, Tesla is in a unique spot, there's no way to atribute how many sales are a result of competition with BMW or Audi and how many sales are a result of someone wanting a long range EV. I would have never considered a 7 series or MB S-Class but because I bought a Tesla, I'm all of a sudden considered their competition and I took Audis market share. No I was, nor ever will be in the market for a full size luxury car. Audi never had my market share therefore Tesla never took it, but on paper, because I bought a Model S Tesla is stomping the competition. Tesla took a sale away from a new Ford F-350 when I bought my car, not any of the companies they're compared to. So until EV sales are categorized properly, the numbers will always be skewed.

This is pretty nonsensical.

You can see the loss of market share by BMW and everyone else simply by looking at the market share for...BMW and everyone else- and seeing how it declines as Teslas share increases.


It's also (again) not really addressing what was actually said- Tesla manages to sell hundreds of thousands of relatively expensive cars a year with 0 advertising- so probably selling $8 cab rides won't be a problem.