I just put a 2nd deposit down and need advise....

[boshk]

thanks in advance guys/girls
Long story short, I missed the opportunity to get a 2016 MS 75D with FSD capability

A week later another 75D came up....I promptly put deposit on it
1st deposit:
2016 CPO MS 75D, Obsid Black Metallic, AP1, coil suspension, HEPA, 42,000km
In 2 days time, it is the settlement date.

Today I decided to have another look at the Tesla Used car....
The first car came back up, called agent, previous buyer forfeited deposit and got a P90D instead.

2nd Deposit:
2016 CPO MS 75D, Solid Black, AP2, FSD capability, Air suspension, HEPA, Ultra sound, 14,000km!

Now comes the dilemma.....which one and more importantly the hardware, I asked about the status of the AP/HW/FSD since you guys in US had a case of Tesla disabling FSD because he wasn't original owner.

Even the sales agent here in Hong Kong doesn't know......he said he will try check, he did say, FSD (auto off ramp, nav on ap, smart summon) does NOT work well/at all in Hong Kong, too narrow, not approved...

Is there anyway I can check tomorrow when I go to inspect car? MCU or ....??

EV-CPO states this:
APF2 Full Self-Driving Capability
APH0 APH0 (APH0 is hardware 2.0)
What does Capability mean....doesn't necessarily mean ENABLED right?

Is it true, MCU 1 & HW2.0 even with FSD enabled is NOT entitled to free HW3.0 because it can't be fitted?
Dashcam does or does not work with HW2.0?

The other major thing is price....its $13000 MORE expensive....guessing, FSD, Air suspension, 21 wheels, low mileage, Ultra Sound.
The 'cheaper' 75D looks nice especially the Obsid Black colour, checked what I could, no test drive....

I have no experience of Tesla car so any opinions would be welcomed.

 

[Lasttoy]

No sure you would get your money's worth out of FSD? You cant go very far on trips to justify that expense. Like thousands of miles on a trip. My opinion.

 

[Battpower]

Is it true, MCU 1 & HW2.0 even with FSD enabled is NOT entitled to free HW3.0 because it can't be fitted?

Anything you are told is subject to location. If Tesla are offering an upgrade in your location from MCU1 to MCU2, then at the very least you could expect priority considerataion for HW3 upgrade if you already have full paid FSD on the car. That is not the same as FSD features - which could be just EAP.

Is FSD worthwhile is a topic thrashed and thrashed out over and over again. Generally long range journeys on uniform road layout (following US lane conventions) stand most chance of user approval. TACC (with steering if available) in heavy traffic at slow speeds generally gets a thumbs up. General city driving, small rural roads, short journeys on non-conforming road layout not so well liked.

 

[ekendahl]

Yes, AP2 cars will not be upgraded to HW3 unless you buy FSD and this car does _not_ have FSD enabled. You don't need HW3 for Sentry Mode dashcam but you do need AP HW2. You could buy FSD at a later date and Tesla would upgrade at that point.

Both cars have the MCU1 (media control unit). Tesla has just last week announced that they offer an upgrade of MCU to the newer MCU. In the US it costs $2500. With MCU2 you would get Sentry Mode for HW2 cars but not HW1 cars. I believe the upgrade will be available world-wide sometime this year.

The price difference is steep. A lot of people (including me) want the AP2 cars as we want to see how FSD evolves over the coming years. Today AP1 is almost as good as AP2 but our hope is that AP2 cars will evolve into something better.

If FSD is not that important to you then an AP1 car is a much better price (but you would lose the option of getting Sentry Mode).

 

[boshk]

Anything you are told is subject to location. If Tesla are offering an upgrade in your location from MCU1 to MCU2, then at the very least you could expect priority considerataion for HW3 upgrade if you already have full paid FSD on the car. That is not the same as FSD features - which could be just EAP.

Is FSD worthwhile is a topic thrashed and thrashed out over and over again. Generally long range journeys on uniform road layout (following US lane conventions) stand most chance of user approval. TACC (with steering if available) in heavy traffic at slow speeds generally gets a thumbs up. General city driving, small rural roads, short journeys on non-conforming road layout not so well liked.

Thanks. Sometimes the agents don't even know what is going on or what will happen.
You would think the Sales team and Service agents would have access to 'detail car specs' and Elon's announcements in their system.

FSD enabled....yes no
EAP enabled...yes no
MCU 1 to 2 upgrades and component arrival dates

Yes, AP2 cars will not be upgraded to HW3 unless you buy FSD and this car does _not_ have FSD enabled. You don't need HW3 for Sentry Mode dashcam but you do need AP HW2. You could buy FSD at a later date and Tesla would upgrade at that point.
......
The price difference is steep. A lot of people (including me) want the AP2 cars as we want to see how FSD evolves over the coming years. Today AP1 is almost as good as AP2 but our hope is that AP2 cars will evolve into something better.

If FSD is not that important to you then an AP1 car is a much better price (but you would lose the option of getting Sentry Mode).

Thanks. The price is actually pretty steep especially when they still cannot confirm whether the car has FSD enabled.
For $13,000 saving, I could use it to ceramic coat the Obsid Black and maybe at a later date do the MCU 1 to 2 upgrade.

Like the others have said, Hong Kong doesn't have major long highways unlike UK or US so FSD isn't as useful.

 

[ekendahl]

If you can post the link to Tesla CPO site for the cars and we can let you know more details.

 

[boshk]

If you can post the link to Tesla CPO site for the cars and we can let you know more details.

vin is 5YJSB7E20GF166715

This is a 2016 car, so its AP2 on hardware 2.0. Even if FSD is paid for and WILL transfer to me, I cannot expect the 'free' upgrade to hardware 3.0 because it isn't possible at the moment. They need to find some retrofit for it and there maybe issues with compatibility with MCU 1.
Am I correct?

I got into all this because in the back of my mind, I was thinking I am 'future proofing' my Tesla but I heard some guys paid for FSD back in 2015 and they are still....waiting.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

FSD Capability pretty much means it has the hardware to enable FSD but it hasn't been paid for
The vin you post doesn't appear on the Tesla website that I can see

 

[boshk]

FSD Capability pretty much means it has the hardware to enable FSD but it hasn't been paid for
The vin you post doesn't appear on the Tesla website that I can see

Thanks. I put deposit on it so it gets removed from official Tesla Used inventory site.
Its on EV-CPO or EV-TSLA

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Thanks. I put deposit on it so it gets removed from official Tesla Used inventory site.
Its on EV-CPO or EV-TSLA

ok, I tend to prefer Tesla-info as they show both Tesla and 3rd party listings and couldn’t see it on there either, but both sites have loads of data on cars for sale.

 

[Battpower]

FSD Capability pretty much means it has the hardware to enable FSD but it hasn't been paid for.

This is exactly what I understood, but subsequently saw suggestions that FSD Capability was actually the same as FSD activated.

My car had two entries in its documentation, both "FSD Capability" and also "FSD - Full Self Driving".

Based on experiences here, I would absolutely get specific confirmation from Tesla that the FSD functions are fully enabled and available in accordance with Tesla's sale agreement for each individual vehicle.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I take it as the one code says it has the capability, the second entry you have says its been activated - the former isn't strictly needed if the later is set, but I'm not aware of anyone who thinks with just the former the car actually has FSD activated.

Maybe a better way to put the first one is "Car has FSD capability but not necessarily activated" and the second code says it has been.

 

[Battpower]

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks with just the former the car actually has FSD activated.

Neither am I at this moment. In a previous thread I made exactly the argument that you are making, and had a couple of responses supposedly giving evidence to the contrary.

In any event, better safe than sorry, so get a clear statement from Tesla for each vehicle being considered.

 

[ekendahl]

I very recently bought my Tesla and it clearly stated FSD Enabled. Any other statement simply means that the car has some version of AP2. So your car will not have FSD enabled.

 

[Battpower]

it clearly stated FSD Enabled.

Same here.

 

[IndyToronto]

IMHO, FSD is an interesting toy but it's still far from maturity. In a place like HK or even to mainland china, I seriously doubt you can trust the thing to function without a high risk of accident. FSD is this fun amazing feature you will try a few times but realize you want more maturity to be able to let it run a long time. Then you won't really use it much.

The differentiator is AP which describes the types of cameras around the car. I recall AP 2.0 and above gives the Sentry Mode (which records 360 surveillance videos onto a USB flash. That's the only useful feature with AP 2.x that does not work on AP 1.0.

The Autopilot with convenience, which is available with even AP 1.0, is like an extension of cruise control as it tries to keep within the lines on a lane, but you'll soon realize that it helps reduce fatigue with very long distance driving, but you won't trust any of this to help you exit or enter or even switch highways. Plus driving in stop and go with stop signs, yield signs and traffic lights, there's no way to trust current FSD/Autopilot in these scenarios yet.

If it's free, I don't mind FSD even if I won't use it. but to me, it's not worth a few thousand dollars today given you can't really fall asleep and let the car drive you home like in the movies. In a few years, it might change, but I suspect there's a lot more infrastructure changes (transmissions from signs, signals, removing non-smart-cars from roads) before it is safe to do anything remotely close to reading a book while the car drives itself

 

[ekendahl]

The differentiator is AP which describes the types of cameras around the car. I recall AP 2.0 and above gives the Sentry Mode (which records 360 surveillance videos onto a USB flash. That's the only useful feature with AP 2.x that does not work on AP 1.0.

It's only AP2.5+ (HW2.5 and MCU2) and above that have working Sentry mode. I have HW2 and it will flash but not record anything. If you have a AP2.0+/MCU1 car then you can soon upgrade the MCU for $2500 and get sentry mode at that point.

The Autopilot with convenience, which is available with even AP 1.0, is like an extension of cruise control as it tries to keep within the lines on a lane, but you'll soon realize that it helps reduce fatigue with very long distance driving, but you won't trust any of this to help you exit or enter or even switch highways. Plus driving in stop and go with stop signs, yield signs and traffic lights, there's no way to trust current FSD/Autopilot in these scenarios yet.

I don't disagree but I still choose to buy an AP2 car. Why?

AP1 is essentially as good as AP2 today. But the value of FSD depends on how you view the beta of FSD. Part of the fun of Tesla ownership, for me, is seeing the SW and specifically the FSD evolve. I think I have realistic expectations of what will come out of it, but I'm looking forward to getting SW updates that enable new FSD features over the coming 1-2 years. With AP1 you will probably not see any more autopilot updates. For that reason, I'm willing to overpay for an AP2 car today (and upgrade to MCU2) since I don't plan to trade my car anytime soon.

The more rational view is that FSD is not ready (true!) so why pay a lot of money to be a beta tester?!?! By the time FSD is ready it's time to trade-in the car anyway since it's old! My wife falls in that category and she would have bought a much cheaper used 2016 with AP1.

 

[boshk]

IMHO, FSD is an interesting toy but it's still far from maturity. In a place like HK or even to mainland china, I seriously doubt you can trust the thing to function without a high risk of accident. FSD is this fun amazing feature you will try a few times but realize you want more maturity to be able to let it run a long time. Then you won't really use it much.

The differentiator is AP which describes the types of cameras around the car. I recall AP 2.0 and above gives the Sentry Mode (which records 360 surveillance videos onto a USB flash. That's the only useful feature with AP 2.x that does not work on AP 1.0.

The Autopilot with convenience, which is available with even AP 1.0, is like an extension of cruise control as it tries to keep within the lines on a lane, but you'll soon realize that it helps reduce fatigue with very long distance driving, but you won't trust any of this to help you exit or enter or even switch highways. Plus driving in stop and go with stop signs, yield signs and traffic lights, there's no way to trust current FSD/Autopilot in these scenarios yet.

If it's free, I don't mind FSD even if I won't use it. but to me, it's not worth a few thousand dollars today given you can't really fall asleep and let the car drive you home like in the movies. In a few years, it might change, but I suspect there's a lot more infrastructure changes (transmissions from signs, signals, removing non-smart-cars from roads) before it is safe to do anything remotely close to reading a book while the car drives itself

Well I just got confirmation from the agent, nothing written though.
He said:
-FSD has been paid BUT its disabled because its illegal to use in HK.
-its basically an AP1 car with more cameras and better accuracy, you cannot use any of the FSD functions in HK.

With no way of test driving it to confirm....I guess I will have to take his word for it. I did a check on EV-TSLA and it looks like there has only ever been 2 Model S with FSD.
Still haven't seen the car yet, so when I do, I'll check the MCU and take a few photos for you guys.

 

[IndyToronto]

Well I just got confirmation from the agent, nothing written though.
He said:
-FSD has been paid BUT its disabled because its illegal to use in HK.
-its basically an AP1 car with more cameras and better accuracy, you cannot use any of the FSD functions in HK.

With no way of test driving it to confirm....I guess I will have to take his word for it. I did a check on EV-TSLA and it looks like there has only ever been 2 Model S with FSD.
Still haven't seen the car yet, so when I do, I'll check the MCU and take a few photos for you guys.

Even in North America, FSD it still in beta stage, and more advanced sensors (eg AP 2.5, 3.0?) will be better. Won't really work with AP 1.0.

As previously corrected, Sentry mode is available through MCU2 not just the AP. When you get on highway, think of AP as cruise control with lane keeping and a way to reduce fatigue for long distance driving. Not enough highways in HK to use it much, though the sudden rapid acceleration is still lots of fun in other ways. Driving a tesla is basically like switching from the nokia phones to the iphone, it's very difficult to go back once you've put on some miles.