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I love this car, but.....

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darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,123
Canada
Model 3 AWD DM LR
Purchase: 06/30/2019
Current Date: 09/19/2019

Total miles: 8,490 miles
Average wH/mile: 247


The car is ALMOST perfect in almost every way.
I travel a lot. This car is a blast to drive and soooo smoooth. However, battery is the biggest draw back.
A full charge to 100% is always 306 miles.

However, I pushed my limits with the range anxiety recently because I was having some questionable range.
For the 4th time to this date, I have tested the complete range of this car. Charging xx% to 100%.at each interval and running to as low as 3%. I have had battery issues with vampire drain but it completely stopped when i turned the car off.

Trip 1: 08/16/19 - 08/19/19
Total miles driven: 267 miles
Average wH/mile: 235
Remaining Percentage: 3%
A/C: On

Trip 2:: 08/19/19 - 08/24/19
Total Miles Driven: 283
Average wH/mile: 219
Remaining %: 4
A/C: On

Trip 3: 08/24/19 - 08/30/19
Total Miles Driven: 269
Average wH/mile: 232
Remaining %: 2
AC: ON

Trip 4: 08/30/19 - 09/09/19
Total Miles Driven
Average wH/Mile:257
Average wH/mile: 244
Remaining %: 3
A/C: On

Range Anxiety is real. However, I question more on the real life battery expectancy. Why is there such a big discrepancy.
I would love to get a full 300 miles or even 310 miles as advertised but I can barely come close to it. Its a beautiful car but I want to know if any other owners are experiencing anything like this? I am planning to take this to the service center but time is a little limited.

A range test starts and finishes without going into park ... you can't do a range test over the course of multiple days. The car uses battery while you aren't using it even if you don't think it is.
 

KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,551
3,212
Maine
Some thoughts on your post:
• Are you sure the car is centering you a bit to the right? Center yourself on an empty road, and have someone driving behind check your position. Lots of people think they're centered when in fact they're off a little to one side.

• Did you read your car's warranty?

• Long trips are no problem, don't you have any Superchargers around you?

• Don't waste your time turning off the headlights to save a few electrons.

• The issue is your phantom drain. You say you lose 1 to 2 miles at work, and 1 to 2 miles overnight. That's 2 to 4 miles every day. Add those miles into your semi-continuous drives and you'll get your 310 miles. Trips 2, 3 and 4 all show between 300 and 310 miles if you factor in 4 miles of phantom drain per day. Only Trip 1 is a little low. You are chasing a problem that doesn't exist.
I completely agree with you that draining the battery to a super low percentage can be questionable and maybe not healthy. I didnt plug it in more often because I wanted to test the true range of the vehicle. I thought," heck, Maybe I can go more than 310 miles.." It is just sad that Im driving 55 mph - 60 mph to achieve the highest efficiency as possible.



Regen is turned on and have never been touched since i bought the car. I have used auto pilot previously but I noticed it kept surging back and forth trying to comply with the every day roads. This happens a lot when drivers move in and out of your lane when you are on a constant cruise. Then comes the sensors that sense the driving lanes. It always want to center me a bit to the right...Either I am too close to a car/semi or wall.
Most of my daily trips are 100+ miles. It can go as far as 120 miles to 160 miles varying on the days. Shutting everything off (sentry, wifi, cabin over heat) helped a lot with the vampire drain I had initially with the car.
I will try a super long trip and I can report back to you guys. Yes, it will be a 300 mile trip. Theoretically, I should have an extra 6 miles or 10 miles in doing so.


Semi continuous. Long drives. Maybe 1.5 to 2 hours one way and another on the way back.
I toggle between percentage and miles on "display" and i rarely lose any battery life (least I had now is maybe 1 to 2 miles while parked at work).

I try not to charge it everywhere possible. Although, it is "advised" to keep at 90% or always plugged in, what happens if i experience battery degradation quicker than usual? Would that be covered by Tesla?


Most roads that I drive on at flat. 99.99% flat, dry heat. No uphills or down hills. And our area does not receive any rain throughout the year.



I think you are right on this. This vehicle is best suit for urban use only. Grocery store, maybe 15 mile loop. Long trips are a maybe? If this car can achieve 350 miles on a single charge with some left over, it would be ideal.



A/C drains the battery but I watched some videos on youtube showing a comparision and it shows that A/C doesnt really affect mileage concerns. I hope that is true. I dont blast the media, I purposely turn off the head lights everytime in "off" position. The center pad is put at 10% and sonar is as is.


Overall, I just hope this car can sustain a 300 mile loop/trip. I will report back to you guys when I have that planned out. I really want to get the best of this car. I personally didnt think that the car sitting would have a major impact because my vampire drain have been solved after the 5000 mile. I lose maybe 1 or 2 miles or none if at all overnight.
 

Phlier

Bluebird
Jun 12, 2019
1,475
1,852
Utah
@TheWhiteEGG Think about how difficult it is to gauge how far a battery charge is going to get you. How much does the car weigh at the time of the trip? Outside air temperature? Tire pressure? Winds? Will you be gaining altitude on your drive? How steadily will you maintain your cruising speed? Will you be accelerating rapidly at times? All of these things have an effect on how much energy you are going to be using. Your battery has a set amount of energy in it. How fast you drain that energy has *a lot* of variables to it.

Honestly, whatever the car manufacturer tells you is just a guess. How many miles will your car go? How long is a piece of string?

Both of those questions have the same answer: It depends. It depends on far too many variables to give you a definite answer. All you are ever going to get is ball park. And it's a big ball park.
 
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gilscales

Active Member
Jul 16, 2016
1,684
1,904
Long Beach, CA
Model 3 AWD DM LR
Purchase: 06/30/2019
Current Date: 09/19/2019

Total miles: 8,490 miles
Average wH/mile: 247


The car is ALMOST perfect in almost every way.
I travel a lot. This car is a blast to drive and soooo smoooth. However, battery is the biggest draw back.
A full charge to 100% is always 306 miles.

However, I pushed my limits with the range anxiety recently because I was having some questionable range.
For the 4th time to this date, I have tested the complete range of this car. Charging xx% to 100%.at each interval and running to as low as 3%. I have had battery issues with vampire drain but it completely stopped when i turned the car off.

Trip 1: 08/16/19 - 08/19/19
Total miles driven: 267 miles
Average wH/mile: 235
Remaining Percentage: 3%
A/C: On

Trip 2:: 08/19/19 - 08/24/19
Total Miles Driven: 283
Average wH/mile: 219
Remaining %: 4
A/C: On

Trip 3: 08/24/19 - 08/30/19
Total Miles Driven: 269
Average wH/mile: 232
Remaining %: 2
AC: ON

Trip 4: 08/30/19 - 09/09/19
Total Miles Driven
Average wH/Mile:257
Average wH/mile: 244
Remaining %: 3
A/C: On

Range Anxiety is real. However, I question more on the real life battery expectancy. Why is there such a big discrepancy.
I would love to get a full 300 miles or even 310 miles as advertised but I can barely come close to it. Its a beautiful car but I want to know if any other owners are experiencing anything like this? I am planning to take this to the service center but time is a little limited.
I changed the tires on my car to these

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...9DWS06XL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

I wanted a wider tire all around and a slightly taller sidewall, I am very happy with what I chose and lost only about 7 or 8% range for my choice and the trade off is worth it to me, the car handles better, is more comfortable and the speedo is spot on now (it was reading high before)

If I were to want maximum range from this car I would have the 18" aero wheels and covers and I might try a 50 series tire like this

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...8ASCGTXL&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

While I am not positive it would result in better fuel economy than the stock mxm4 tire on the aero's I have a hunch it would with its higher load rating and low rolling resistance coupled with a larger diameter I think it should be more efficient.
 
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Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,286
6,823
Canyon Lake,CA
YMMV...Maybe looking at this the wrong way. At the beginning of your trip, your computer will estimate your range. As you work your way through the battery it will constantly be recalculating battery reserve at the end of trip.

If you drive in a manner that will use more juice, you may see that the calculation will show a negative number at destination. Informs the driver that they should arrange to get additional charge or face the possibility of running out.

Just like with a gasser. Many people run out of gas, trying to avoiding stopping for gas and pushing it to the limit.

Prudent people will calculate a comfortable reserve to avoid range anxiety.
 

North75

Member
Mar 28, 2017
605
732
MA
But that 283 miles was driven over 6 days. So who knows how much energy was spent on other things like Sentry mode, cabin overheat protection, time in park, normal vampire drain, etc. How many small drives were included?
Yes. I missed that detail. He mentioned that some of the drives were "semi-continuous", but looking again at his data, that wasn't really true as the shortest was over 3-4 days.
 
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brianman

Burrito Founder
Nov 10, 2011
17,533
2,997
Total miles driven: 267
Total miles driven: 283
Total miles driven: 269
I'm confused.

Is your issue that you want to make 250+ mile trips and stopping once along the journey is a huge problem for you?

Or is the issue (essentially) that you don't like the rating scale defined by the EPA?
 
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Sans-gas

Member
May 1, 2019
119
51
NW WA
Similar to fuel economy ratings on ICE cars, the range metric is EXTREMELY optimistic. I think it only applies if you have an old granny driving the car, with no AC or heat on, no headlights on, in perfect, dry weather, at the perfect temperature and maybe a higher altitude with less wind resistance. Start enjoying that instant torque and watch that number drop rapidly. I drive pretty aggressively, and I run the AC/heat all the time. My comfort and enjoyment of my $60,000 car is more important to me than some arbitrary range figure.
Don’t be dissing “granny”. I turn down my AC until I starting getting hot flashes to maximize my range, Sonny!
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,094
Vernon, BC, Canada
I think others have address the gap (standby drain), but I have a note that applies to all vehicles, not just EVs.

My previous daily driver was a Honda Crosstour. The EPA rating was 9.3L/100km. Of course, this is the "combined" rating: it's 7.1 on the highway and 11.1 for city. I primarily did highway, and got an average of 7.2 but could get as good as 6.3 or so when I tried.

When other people drove my car, the efficiency was much worse for the same routes. 9 or even 10 L/100km. Driving habits are a very large part of efficiency. Being a good driver does not necessarily mean one is an efficient driver (in fact, getting 7.2 required a lot of coasting to red traffic lights, pissing off those behind me to a degree).

The EPA rating for the Model 3 LR AWD seems to be 150Wh/km. We get 130-140 on highway if no AC or heat is required, but it does indeed vary. We get about 150 on the highway when the AC is going. Around town I usually get about 100-120. When I turn on the heat in town, it rises to 140. When my dad drove it around town with AC/heat, he got 150. When I drove it and decided to have a lot more fun, I got 180.

The headlights, screen, radar, etc. are very minimal power draws compared to locomotion. Getting to the park 2 minutes away cost me 1kWh to go there and back - I could have a 100W incandescent bulb going for 10 hours for the energy used for the 2 minute drive! Or my whole kitchen's LED bulbs going to 20 hours. No need to manage headlights etc. in order to save power, it's negligible.
 
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Sophias_dad

Supporting Member
Jul 29, 2018
1,114
1,030
Massachusetts
I think you are right on this. This vehicle is best suit for urban use only. Grocery store, maybe 15 mile loop. Long trips are a maybe? If this car can achieve 350 miles on a single charge with some left over, it would be ideal.

Not to be excessively obnoxious, but that's just silly..... Lets suppose I have my (name most ICE cars here) that has a 500 mile range on a full tank... are you really thinking its only good for, lets say a 25 mile loop? I mean sure, if you happen to need an occasional 400 mile loop or even 800 mile loop, you can do it easier with an ICE car. But the 15 mile loop is far too low. I'd probably be comfortable(with the 3) doing a 175 mile loop per trip, and if I'm expecting to do that every day, I'm going to be doing whatever I can to change my life to no longer do that every day.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,789
9,745
Riverside Co. CA
Not to be excessively obnoxious, but that's just silly..... Lets suppose I have my (name most ICE cars here) that has a 500 mile range on a full tank... are you really thinking its only good for, lets say a 25 mile loop? I mean sure, if you happen to need an occasional 400 mile loop or even 800 mile loop, you can do it easier with an ICE car. But the 15 mile loop is far too low. I'd probably be comfortable(with the 3) doing a 175 mile loop per trip, and if I'm expecting to do that every day, I'm going to be doing whatever I can to change my life to no longer do that every day.

I read that and thought it was fairly silly for the OP to say that as well... that a car that can go 200-300 miles is only good for a 15 mile loop just seems excessively... excessive. It was so silly I assumed that it was a joke.
 

garth_angst

Member
Mar 30, 2019
339
125
long island
I just wanted to add that I charge to 80% on my LR AWD, which gets me 248-249 range. I go down to about 20%, which is 60 miles. That's about 190 miles driven, but when I look at my miles drive since last charge, I am always over 190 miles driven (except for the few times I felt like "airing it out" and experiencing some of the power that the car offers). My lifetime wh/mile is 210. Sometimes as low as 195 for last time since charge. I am on Long Island, where the top speed limit is 55mph. I drive 75% on highway, rarely going over 65. I don't see the 3 mile loss per day. On rare occasions, I actually see it go up by 1.
 

AdamMacDon

Member
May 8, 2019
725
534
Victoria BC
Don’t be dissing “granny”. I turn down my AC until I starting getting hot flashes to maximize my range, Sonny!
Hey to each their own, regardless of age. Personally at the cost of 8 cents per KWh here I'm not too fussed about range or energy usage, especially coming from a Dodge Charger with a big V8 in it!
 

garth_angst

Member
Mar 30, 2019
339
125
long island
Hey to each their own, regardless of age. Personally at the cost of 8 cents per KWh here I'm not too fussed about range or energy usage, especially coming from a Dodge Charger with a big V8 in it!

I pay 19.5 cents per KWh. Not even sure if I am saving money over gas at that price.
 

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
8,789
9,745
Riverside Co. CA
I pay 19.5 cents per KWh. Not even sure if I am saving money over gas at that price.

Depends on the cost of your gas (obviously lol). I just passed a gas station a few days ago and "super" was like $3.99 a gallon. My BMW wanted (and wifes bmw still wants) super, so thats what I normally look at. Of course, in california, unless you are charging your car on a time of use plan, electricity is usually between 20 - 40 cents per kWh (not sure if I have the capitalization right on kWh...). Even if on a time of use plan, those trade low overnight costs of around 10-13 cents for super high rates during prime time (35-45 cents or maybe even a bit more ).

I have a leased solar system from solar city (now tesla) and my only regret is I wish I had bought the system instead of leasing it. I was not sure if I was going to stay in this house, but it looks like I will be here a while... maybe till I retire which would hopefully be in around 10-11 years. I pay 16 cents per kWh and feel like its a steal.
 
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AdamMacDon

Member
May 8, 2019
725
534
Victoria BC
I pay 19.5 cents per KWh. Not even sure if I am saving money over gas at that price.
Yeah, if you're in the US your chance of saving money on gas is fairly slim, unless your previous car was a sports car. However, here in BC Canada gas was up to almost $7 a gallon while electricity is cheap as chips thanks to our hydroelectric dams. Add in the 10 grand incentive (government adds it to your down payment) and it was really a no brainer.
 

darth_vad3r

Well-Known Sith
May 6, 2019
1,574
1,123
Canada
(not sure if I have the capitalization right on kWh...)

You do! k in metric for x1000, like km is 1000 m.
W for watts, capital W because it was named after someone, but lower case when you use the word in a sentence.
h for hours :D

I think technically it is watt-hours watt·hours, so it *should* be kW-h or kW·h, but ... whatever :D :D
 
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Uncle Paul

Well-Known Member
Nov 1, 2013
6,286
6,823
Canyon Lake,CA
Seems like there are two types of EV people.

Some look hard to find any possible problems. They wonder about the most expensive possible charging, the most challenging routes, how it could possibly run out of juice etc.

Others live in faith instead of fear. They look at their routes for charging friendly paths, they realize they can charge in their carages whenever they wish. (just realized that I misspelled Garages, but kind of like carages better :)
They learn about time of day electic billing, and time shift car charging and laundry to those hours.

Not being judgmental, just realizing that different thinking people will view the challenges and opportunities of driving an EV differently.

Some will obsess that it takes 20 minutes longer to get to their destination, others will embrace getting out of the car for a stretch after a 4 hour stint, and arrive refreshed and energized after their trip.

Both of these viewpoints are totally valid. It is just sometimes hard for the optimistic owners to see the views of the pessimistic ones and vice versa.
 
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