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I love this car, but.....

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Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
712
807
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
...When I asked them about how come it is difficult for my tesla to reach 300 miles of range, they simply ignored the question and stated they did a BMS check and nothing was wrong and that if I drove slower, I can achieve it.

There’s nothing “ wrong” with your car.

Your car would never do 300 miles of 65+ mph freeway driving on a single charge - not when it was new and certainly not now. As has been stated as nauseum, the EPA’s range test’s average speed is 48mph. If you average faster than that, you won’t be able to make the EPA-rated range.

Some range loss is normal as the battery ages. My guess is that you haven’t lost as much range as you seem to think you have.

How has your “range loss“ affected you in your day to day driving? Are you not able to make it from Supercharger to Supercharger on your road trips? I understand that you might have to spend 5 minutes longer at a charging stop, but how else have you been affected?
 
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KenC

Active Member
Sep 4, 2018
3,490
3,176
Maine
There’s nothing “ wrong” with your car.

Your car would never do 300 miles of 65+ mph freeway driving on a single charge - not when it was new and certainly not now. As has been stated as nauseum, the EPA’s range test’s average speed is 48mph. If you average faster than that, you won’t be able to make the EPA-rated range.

Some range loss is normal as the battery ages. My guess is that you haven’t lost as much range as you seem to think you have.

How has your “range loss“ affected you in your day to day driving? Are you not able to make it from Supercharger to Supercharger on your road trips? I understand that you might have to spend 5 minutes longer at a charging stop, but how else have you been affected?
ABRP, if you register, will calibrate its Reference Consumption for your vehicle, at 65mph. Mine comes up as 235Wh/mile. Based upon that, if I were to drive at 65mph, I could get 300 miles of freeway range, if I used most of the battery capacity. Unfortunately, I don't drive at 65mph, nor do I run it below 10%, so, 300+miles in range at 65mph will only be in theory.
 

camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,087
Vernon, BC, Canada
Your car would never do 300 miles of 65+ mph freeway driving on a single charge - not when it was new and certainly not now. As has been stated as nauseum, the EPA’s range test’s average speed is 48mph. If you average faster than that, you won’t be able to make the EPA-rated range.

I keep hearing this. Everyone says it. Is it just a convenient excuse, or do I have a genuinely different vehicle from most of you?

My wife's previous drive to work is a somewhat flat, somewhat hilly highway drive with a long-ish hill at one point. Let's say she went 110km/h (I can neither confirm nor deny her speed officer, but it's the general flow rate sooo). With either windows wide open or AC on in the summer, she easily got 132Wh/km round trip. In freedom units, that's 68.3mph and 212Wh/km. On a fresh LR battery, that's enough to go 563km or 380mi (clearly over the rated range). Today with our degraded battery, that's still enough for 532km, still over the rated amount.

If I do that same drive, I get slightly worse Wh/km while going 10% slower (figure that one out, I have no clue). It still works out to better-than-rated efficiency.

Our tires are inflated to 40-41psi cold. We have mudflaps installed, front and rear. Stock all-seasons on the 18" aeros. We're both efficient drivers in general (we always beat EPA figures in previous gas cars), but surely physics overrules much of that on the highway?
 
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Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
712
807
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
I keep hearing this. Everyone says it. Is it just a convenient excuse, or do I have a genuinely different vehicle from most of you?


If I do that same drive, I get slightly worse Wh/km while going 10% slower (figure that one out, I have no clue)...

It seems that you may be confusing “motorway speed” with “overall average speed”.

The rate of acceleration also matters, as does the regen setting.

As an example, I drove 143 miles today, using 37KWH per the on board calculation, averaging 261 wh/mile. That gives a range of ~287 miles from 100% to Zero%, which of course nobody would ever attempt in real life. Call it 265 miles in the real world.

By comparison, my lifetime average is 306 wh/mile, meaning ~245 miles of range from 100-0, or realistically 220 miles.

The OP doesn’t have a problem with his/her car - he/she apparently has a problem understanding how EVs work.
By the same token, my guess is that your vehicle isn’t “exceptional”, but rather that you’re not measuring range or usage in the same way that others who report different efficiency are.
 
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camalaio

Active Member
May 28, 2019
1,483
2,087
Vernon, BC, Canada
It seems that you may be confusing “motorway speed” with “overall average speed”.

The rate of acceleration also matters, as does the regen setting.

As an example, I drove 143 miles today, using 37KWH per the on board calculation, averaging 261 wh/mile. That gives a range of ~287 miles from 100% to Zero%, which of course nobody would ever attempt in real life. Call it 265 miles in the real world.

By comparison, my lifetime average is 306 wh/mile, meaning ~245 miles of range from 100-0, or realistically 220 miles.

The OP doesn’t have a problem with his/her car - he/she apparently has a problem understanding how EVs work.
By the same token, my guess is that your vehicle isn’t “exceptional”, but rather that you’re not measuring range or usage in the same way that others who report different efficiency are.

Sure, that's a fair point and I thought I would get it. I should've just wrote what I'm about to.

Based on previous longer trips, we can absolutely get the same 132Wh/km on longer "motorway speed" trips that have a net zero elevation change (in summer). It's actually the shorter trips with a lower "overall average speed" where I get worse numbers, as these typically include some larger proportion of energy usage for climate control. This is of course reported via the trip computer, but I know the stationary losses to be negligible (basically because of no time spent parked, but also via data off the CAN bus) so it's fairly spot-on. In-town I get anywhere from 117-130Wh/km. It's obviously notably more if I factor in something like Dog Mode, but I otherwise have the usual suspects minimised (cabin overheat protection, summon standby, etc.).

Our lifetime, with terrible winter averages, is still 161Wh/km (259Wh/mi). Still pretty good, though above rated due to winter. Winter is a separate topic entirely.

I do really understand these to be while-driving numbers and I have other losses while parked (which I've detailed in threads similar to this). I was specifically asking about the "unachievable" EPA figures, which don't consider these standby drains.
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
712
807
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
Sure, that's a fair point and I thought I would get it. I should've just wrote what I'm about to.

Based on previous longer trips, we can absolutely get the same 132Wh/km on longer "motorway speed" trips that have a net zero elevation change (in summer). It's actually the shorter trips with a lower "overall average speed" where I get worse numbers, as these typically include some larger proportion of energy usage for climate control. This is of course reported via the trip computer, but I know the stationary losses to be negligible (basically because of no time spent parked, but also via data off the CAN bus) so it's fairly spot-on. In-town I get anywhere from 117-130Wh/km. It's obviously notably more if I factor in something like Dog Mode, but I otherwise have the usual suspects minimised (cabin overheat protection, summon standby, etc.).

Our lifetime, with terrible winter averages, is still 161Wh/km (259Wh/mi). Still pretty good, though above rated due to winter. Winter is a separate topic entirely.

I do really understand these to be while-driving numbers and I have other losses while parked (which I've detailed in threads similar to this). I was specifically asking about the "unachievable" EPA figures, which don't consider these standby drains.

The EPA range is achievable if the car is driven in the same manner as it is in the EPA test (which is actually done on a chassis dynamometer, but I digress).

Now, as to whether the EPA test for EVs results in realistic figures, that’s a different story altogether...
 

dmurphy

Woof.
Dec 7, 2018
3,475
4,684
New Jersey - Morris County
The EPA range is achievable if the car is driven in the same manner as it is in the EPA test (which is actually done on a chassis dynamometer, but I digress).

Now, as to whether the EPA test for EVs results in realistic figures, that’s a different story altogether...

Sure - been driving around Yellowstone the last 2 days and actually significantly beating the EPA range estimates in our X. Speed limit's 45 throughout the park, so... yeah.
 

captanzuelo

Member
May 28, 2020
480
664
los angeles
Sure - been driving around Yellowstone the last 2 days and actually significantly beating the EPA range estimates in our X. Speed limit's 45 throughout the park, so... yeah.

The elevation also affects your range. At 8,000 feet in Yellowstone, the air is a lot thinner hence less drag to overcome.
 
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TheWhiteEGG

Member
Aug 1, 2019
28
12
Calaskavada
There’s nothing “ wrong” with your car.

Your car would never do 300 miles of 65+ mph freeway driving on a single charge - not when it was new and certainly not now. As has been stated as nauseum, the EPA’s range test’s average speed is 48mph. If you average faster than that, you won’t be able to make the EPA-rated range.

Some range loss is normal as the battery ages. My guess is that you haven’t lost as much range as you seem to think you have.

How has your “range loss“ affected you in your day to day driving? Are you not able to make it from Supercharger to Supercharger on your road trips? I understand that you might have to spend 5 minutes longer at a charging stop, but how else have you been affected?

You are right. Even when new, I think it never achieved 300 miles, but we did get pretty close.
As of the moment, my car charges at 100% while reading 284 miles. (Almost a 10% loss)
From my day to day driving, I have my wall charger. I plug it maybe... once a week?
Now, as to your question on Super charger to super charger. I recently did a trip not too long ago where I was at 100% (280 miles estimate form car). The next destination was roughly 190 miles. Driving 65 mph, I was pretty shocked and uneasy as I had only 3 percent left. It baffled me.
 

holmgang

Active Member
Sep 9, 2019
1,287
1,290
eu
Let's say she went 110km/h (I can neither confirm nor deny her speed officer, but it's the general flow rate sooo). With either windows wide open or AC on in the summer, she easily got 132Wh/km round trip. In freedom units, that's 68.3mph and 212Wh/km. On a fresh LR battery, that's enough to go 563km or 380mi (clearly over the rated range).

You have a special vehicle. My local motorways are 90 or 110kph tops. Very lightly trafficked. Driving like a saint in absolute perfect reference condition (25*C ambient, no wind,flat, sea level, windows up, no AC, 41psi cold, steady speeds), i would get 170wh/km, maybe 165 stretching it.

To get 130 with windows down or AC on, i'd probably have to draft a semitruck at 50kph for the entirety of trip.

Lifetime average is now around 195.
 

Zcd1

Member
Sep 2, 2018
712
807
Walloon Lake, MI / LaQuinta, CA
From my day to day driving, I have my wall charger. I plug it maybe... once a week?
Now, as to your question on Super charger to super charger. I recently did a trip not too long ago where I was at 100% (280 miles estimate form car). The next destination was roughly 190 miles. Driving 65 mph, I was pretty shocked and uneasy as I had only 3 percent left. It baffled me.

Tesla suggests that you keep the car plugged in even when not using it. Why aren’t you following that directive?

In 20 degree temps, with the heat and heated seats on, running at 75 mph my car will do ~210 miles, and mine is a Performance with aftermarket (read: not aerodynamic) 20” wheels. I have no explanation for your experiences.

Perhaps you should change your charging habits to see if that helps.
 

TheWhiteEGG

Member
Aug 1, 2019
28
12
Calaskavada
Tesla suggests that you keep the car plugged in even when not using it. Why aren’t you following that directive?

In 20 degree temps, with the heat and heated seats on, running at 75 mph my car will do ~210 miles, and mine is a Performance with aftermarket (read: not aerodynamic) 20” wheels. I have no explanation for your experiences.

Perhaps you should change your charging habits to see if that helps.
Jesus lord, 210 at 75 mph? I dont know if my car is capable of that, honestly.
I'll keep you informed once I change the charging habits.
 
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